Anyone Know More About Excalibur "Ivan the Terrible&

[Staragox]

I purchased an Excalibur "Ivan the Terrible" Electronic Chess game. I wanted the one that is the same as listed on http://www.spacious-mind.com/html/ivan_ ... rible.html

I noticed apparently there are atleast 3 versions of this "Ivan the Terrible" (heaven knows how many different versions, of what is suppose to be the same product, exists)?

The model number on my Excalibur "Ivan the Terrible" is 701E. But why I say the atleast 3 versions, is because I see there is one 701E that has cheaper / crappier chess pieces that come with it (and they just go and change the picture on the box for the Excalibur "Ivan the Terrible" without changing the model number). Then there is another 701E that comes with what looks like a higher quality set of chess pieces.

I really don't care what quality of chess pieces that come with it, but I want to make sure I actually got what I wanted to purchase. Not being able to figure out if you are even getting the item that you purchased is really fun. I know before it has happened, and that is really what pisses me off about Excalibur, is that they changed their products before without even changing the name of the product.

I want to find out if anyone knows if the model number says 701E then it actually is the specifications on the website link above, or did I get ripped off? I specifically want to know if the Excalibur "Ivan the Terrible", if it says model 701E, then it has the Hitachi processor running at the speed / specifications listed on Spacious Mind's website?

Sincerely,
Robert

[Tibono2]

Hi Robert,

I have a model 701E and you can see a couple of snapshots here.

Indeed the chessmen design is not the same as the one shown on Nick's page. Despite the cheaper pieces, the hardware is the same and the playing level consistent with the H8.

I suggest you can check this post where Ron Nelson himself listed the Excalibur hardware characteristics. Only one hardware configuration for Ivan (the terrible); a different one for Ivan II (the conqueror). This later one shows a different board design (same cheap pieces as mines) and does not ponder.

Cheers,
Eric

[Four.nine]

I read this thread and something made me think:
There are definitely 2 versions of Ivan.
I am not a collector, but I happen to have both (probably so cheap on eBay, I just bought both).
Here are notes from the 4.9....“My Chess Computers” doc:


At present, there are 2 Ivan versions:
• Older, slower (and weaker) 10 MHz IVAN T (motherboard dated 6/28/96); No decal, bad speaker (20 MHz quartz HD6433256A) CANNOT be overclocked
No model number.
• FASTER 12 MHz IVAN T2 (motherboard dated 4/18/97); Excalibur decal, MODE button on LEFT side (12 MHz quartz HD6433256P) CAN be overclocked
Model decal 701E

[Staragox]

First, I wanted to say, I'm sorry if I sounded frustrated at Excalibur. I actually bid on an Excalibur Igor on Ebay then had to ask the seller to cancel my bids after learning there was two versions of the Igor.

The reason I wanted an Excalibur in the first place, I was curious about the "attack bit tables" and how good a game it plays. I am around an 1800 ELO player, and also autistic, and I'm just trying to use my brain and get electronic chess games that are a little bit better then me (so I can gradually improve my game at chess). I thought the Excalibur unit that has the attack bit tables would be a good opponent for me, and not being able to figure out if that is what I even have, is frustrating to say the least. I might be collecting them a little bit, but right now, I'm more interested in how these units play at chess.

Here is a quote from Spacious Mind on the attack bit tables: "Ron Nelson reported that Excalibur Ivan the Terrible was developed by him, using a new program that he wrote for the H8 processor which incorporated some new ideas, including the implementation of Attack Bit Map Tables, a concept Nelson had years previously observed on some Spracklen computers at Fidelity Electronics. Nelson learned the ideas behind Attack Bit Map Tables through subsequent interactions with Ken Thompson who explained to Nelson how the Belle Attack Bit Map Tables worked in practice. Nelson went on to write his own Attack Bit Map Tables with additional new ideas that he wanted to try out that are now incorporated in Excalibur Mirage, Excalibur Ivan the Terrible, Excalibur Grandmaster and Excalibur Igor electronic chess computers."

Now as far as I know, the size of the ROM and maybe RAM, determines if it has the attack bit tables. If they decreased the size of the ROM or RAM, then the newer unit might not have it (even if the processor runs faster). Also the version that has the Hitachi H8 processor probably has the attack bit tables.

The last person who responded seemed very knowledgeable. Do you know if the ROM and RAM, are what is listed on the Spacious Mind website, for both models? And is it a Hitachi H8 processor in the 12 MHZ version of this unit? Since it is the one with the "decal" that I got, and that must mean, I got the 12 MHZ version. I didn't want to take mine apart, if I could avoid it, just to figure out what I have. And if you already taken yours apart, maybe you have this info?

I'm trying to figure out though if this one has or doesn't have the "attack bit tables". Also on Spacious Mind, they list it as pondering, which if they took away the pondering on the 12 MHZ version, then that might mean a decrease in ROM or RAM size to explain it, which would also mean removing the "attack bit tables" which is the whole reason I was trying to buy this unit in the first place.

Please if possible try to answer my revised questions.

Thank You,
Robert

[Four.nine]

Hey Star,

You’re autistic....and I have about a one sentence attention span, so this should make an interesting thread.

First....Excal Elec is out of business so they’re not too angry about your frustration right now.

Next....Hitachi H8 was the go to processor for Excalibur. I believe I have 8 Excals (Ivan, Igor, Grandmaster) and they all use H8. Click on that Tibono link and you’ll see mostly H8 although Motorola started getting in there as well.

Attack bit tables? Don’t know nothin bout no Attack Bit Map Tables.
Just a question:
Does it really matter?
If the computer is giving you enjoyment and a challenge....go with it...don’t worry about a 30 year old buzzword at Fidelity, where they threw around nomenclature like ....”Attack Bit Map Tables” like it was something unique.
Every program/programmer has something like ABMT, they just call it something else or maybe refer to it as the “tactical” subroutine part of the “engine”.
And in that 1800 Elo area, everybody (Saitek, Mephisto, Novag, Fidelity and others I dont even own) had an entry.
At 1800, Excalibur had a lot of company.

Also...”how these units play chess”:

If it’s a good game and you didn’t get squashed, doesn’t matter exactly how..... the unit did, what it did.

[paulwise3]

Hello Staragox,

If you have model Ivan modelnr 701-E or Igor modelnr 711E (and NOT 711E-2 !!) then you have the H8-processor model, which is the strong one with the attack bitmap tables. So do not worry about the pieces being different.

Best regards,
Paul

[Saber6]

Hello 4.9,
Regarding your comment...

Older, slower (and weaker) 10 MHz IVAN T (motherboard dated 6/28/96); No decal, bad speaker (20 MHz quartz HD6433256A) CANNOT be overclocked

I purchased this model recently and it indeed seems to have a bad speaker. Is the note about bad speaker indicating poor quality, poor placement (underside of unit), or high failure rate?

In my case the speaker seems to show signs of coil corrosion in the form of gritty cone movement and odd discoloration of speaker cone around the coil. The outcome is very low sound output. I’ll be installing a new speaker shortly, which I hope resolves the issue.

Thank you!

[Saber6]

Here is a slightly out-of-focus picture. Notice the white corrosion. The rest of the Ivan is spotless, inside and out, so I can only assume this indicates a quality issue.

[Four.nine]

Hello 4.9,
Regarding your comment...

Older, slower (and weaker) 10 MHz IVAN T (motherboard dated 6/28/96); No decal, bad speaker (20 MHz quartz HD6433256A) CANNOT be overclocked

I purchased this model recently and it indeed seems to have a bad speaker. Is the note about bad speaker indicating poor quality, poor placement (underside of unit), or high failure rate?

In my case the speaker seems to show signs of coil corrosion in the form of gritty cone movement and odd discoloration of speaker cone around the coil. The outcome is very low sound output. I’ll be installing a new speaker shortly, which I hope resolves the issue.

Thank you!

It’s been awhile, but my comment “bad speaker” meant garbled/distorted sound.
Probably the sound you have.
You are more industrious than me, because the Ivan speaker problem/repair simply wasn’t worth the effort to me. I probably bought the thing for $20 and ....you get what pay for.
That speaker may have been a bad production run or just a low quality supplier: your corrosion find is most likely the issue.

Then again, I did replace a “bad speaker” in a chess computer once upon a time and the problem remained...I never determined the root cause...apparently something in the processor.
So, WRT to speakers:
Fool me once, shame on me.
Fool me twice and...ah....I..
duh...I won’t get fooled again.

[Saber6]

Good news! (For my Ivan chess computer, at least).

I ordered a 40mm 16 ohm .25 watt speaker and installed it this evening and now have sound!! Fully audible when playing. The original speaker definitely had a component quality issue as the original speaker magnet had degraded and loaded the speaker coil channel with magnetic dust. You can see some evidence of that in my prior photo. The channel was so loaded with dust that it could not generate sound.

For anyone else that has severely muted sound from an Ivan, definitely consider replacing the speaker.

Best of all, it plays a brutal chess game (to me). I’ll learn a lot playing it in the future!

Best regards!

[Four.nine]

Good news! (For my Ivan chess computer, at least).

I ordered a 40mm 16 ohm .25 watt speaker and installed it this evening and now have sound!! Fully audible when playing. The original speaker definitely had a component quality issue as the original speaker magnet had degraded and loaded the speaker coil channel with magnetic dust. You can see some evidence of that in my prior photo. The channel was so loaded with dust that it could not generate sound.

For anyone else that has severely muted sound from an Ivan, definitely consider replacing the speaker.

Best of all, it plays a brutal chess game (to me). I’ll learn a lot playing it in the future!

Best regards!

Bad News! (For me, at least).

You have shamed my lack of initiative and now I am forced to open up the old 10 MHz Ivan T and replace the speaker. 😢😢

4.9

Oh, by the way:

👍👍 to you and Berger for your excellent repair/debug work.

[Saber6]

Thanks very much 4.9! I'm sure you'll appreciate that Ivan more once it's repaired. It plays a very tough chess game too!

FYI, The speaker I purchased on Amazon is listed as "Electronics123.com, Inc. 40mm (1.6in) Metal Housing Mylar Speaker 0.25W". 40mm is slightly smaller than the original, so what I did was use a hot glue gun to create standoff "dots" in the bottom of the speaker housing, then a few dots on the top/back to hold it in place. Worked great.

And yeah, I'm really happy about the outcome with my Advanced VCC repairs so I'm going back in to replace about 5-6 more caps. It'll be like new when done!

Good luck and Best Regards!

[paulwise3]

I also have the 10 MHz Ivan, and it's sound is very weak too. But on the other hand, my Alexandra is too loud in my opinion: if I set the volume level to 1 (the minimum possible) it sounds like normal to me, not weak.
So I wonder what the effect will be if I (let) replace my Ivan speaker...!?

Volume regards,
Paul

[Saber6]

Hi Paul,
You really should replace the speaker in your Ivan. It's not expensive or difficult, and being able to hear the beeps when moving pieces makes it very much worthwhile. Personally, I can do without the Ivan "talk", but that beep, gotta have it.

Best of luck!