The King module is announced on Schach Niggemann

[Yarc]

Hello Ray,

TheKing is max. 100 Elo stronger as Genius. So I think with 300Mhz 2.300 - is realistic. But maybe Johan de Koning made big steps in the last years, I don't know.

Hello Frank,

You say 2300 ELO for the King is realistic. Is this against human players? I have definitely seen the Lang module running at 300Mhz on my Exclusive reaching around 2400 against other dedicated machines. Therefore, I imagine the King module will be higher than this. However, against human players I cannot say what the ELO ratings would be, except probably less than 2400.

I take your point about there being other engines around but these are for PC's and not dedicated machines like the Millennium Chess Genius Exclusive. Now if they were to create a version of the engines you mention for dedicated machines then it would be very interesting, but I wonder if they would achieve 2500 ELO on the restricted hardware of the Exclusive.

The last TheKing version running on a PC was in the order of 2750+- ELO, but this is a very old program now. There has been many advancements in chess programming but also much strength comes from all the extra processing power and memory available on todays PC's and most of these new engines will be 64-bit versions. The Exclusive's processor is 32-bit, so I am sure there would be a scaling down of strength if a 32-bit version of some of these UCI engines were created for the Exclusive. I would be very interested to see some results though! Engines like HIARCS and TheKing are knowledge based and therefore don't benefit from 64-bit processors. I don't know if WASP is knowledge based or a number cruncher like Stockfish which definitely benefits from 64-bit.

Being a fan of dedicated machines I am really looking forward to the improved King module which offers so much configuration to adjust playing style and strength it's crazy but will be fun. In these days it's rare to get a new dedicated machine and certainly one with improved engines albeit based on older versions. So for dedicated fans this is exciting. What we must not forget is that the Exlcusive has limited memory and although 300Mhz is much faster than other older dedicated machines, we have to remember what chess engines could achieve on older pentium2 PC's which I think is a fair comparison. I should think they were all in the same ELO area give or take.

We can but hope for more engines for our dedicated machines Regards
Ray

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi,

the Lang module have with 120 Mhz 2.176 SSDF Elo. Wih 300 Mhz max. 2.250 ELO. And in my opinion SSDF is 25-50 to high. So realistic Elo ... if the program by Johan is 100 Elo stronger as the Lang program on 300Mhz = 2.300 Elo, maybe 2.350 Elo.

TheKing 3.23 on 4Ghz and 1 Core on PC have 2.550 Elo. So from where all the Elo should come on 300 Mhz?

Or Johan de Koning made big improvements in the last years but I can't believe it.

Best
Frank

TheKing 3.50 in CEGT 2.488 Elo.
In my SWCR Rating List 2.537 Elo ... if Shedder 12 is playing with 2.800 Elo. SWCR Elo on 2.86Ghz.

If Johan hold the old program and the old program is running on 300Mhz is 2.300 Elo more as realistic. But I am sure that TheKing 300Mhz is around 100 Elo or a bit more stronger as Genius on 300Mhz.

Wasp 3.00 today is around 400 Elo stronger as the predesscor Zarkov in my older SWCR list. John Stanback goes all the years his own way in programming, nothing to do with fast engines likes Stockfish and so one. A great work John do here in the last years. You can find many Wasp games on my website. Please make your own statistics to openings and you can see what I wrote about the fantastic style of chess Wasp is playing. In my opinion one of the most interesting programs for a modern chess computer today.

Code: Select all

  1 Houdini 4 STD x64 A            : 3092   17  16  1450    78.8 %   2864   28.6 %
  2 Stockfish 08.02.14 SSE42 x64   : 3075   17  16  1250    79.2 %   2844   34.5 %
  3 Stockfish 05.12.13 SSE42 x64   : 3065   15  15  1350    73.7 %   2886   39.9 %
  4 Houdini 3 Pro x64              : 3055   16  16  1390    74.5 %   2869   32.4 %
  5 Komodo TCECr x64               : 3042   14  14  1600    72.4 %   2874   36.9 %
  6 Stockfish 03.11.13 SSE42 x64   : 3041   17  17  1000    72.8 %   2870   41.1 %
  7 Komodo 6 x64                   : 3019   16  16  1170    69.6 %   2875   38.5 %
  8 Houdini 2.0c x64               : 3014   17  17  1400    79.4 %   2780   28.0 %
  9 GullChess 2.8 Beta BMI2 x64    : 3013   16  15  1300    71.3 %   2854   36.7 %
 10 Houdini 1.5 x64                : 2997   13  13  2320    78.2 %   2775   28.8 %
 11 Critter 1.6a x64               : 2990   13  13  1540    66.1 %   2874   43.1 %
 12 Houdini 1.5 w32                : 2986   18  18  1240    78.8 %   2758   29.0 %
 13 Critter 1.4 x64                : 2977   15  15  1600    77.8 %   2760   31.7 %
 14 Equinox 2.00 x64               : 2975   14  14  1340    64.9 %   2868   41.0 %
 15 Equinox 2.02 x64               : 2975   14  14  1400    63.8 %   2876   41.4 %
 16 Fire 3.0 AVX x64               : 2971   17  17  1100    67.3 %   2845   37.5 %
 17 Rybka 4 Exp.61 x64             : 2968   20  20  1000    78.0 %   2747   26.7 %
 18 Bouquet 1.8 x64                : 2967   13  13  1440    62.2 %   2880   44.4 %
 19 Rybka 4.1 Exp.79 x64           : 2965   19  19  1200    78.5 %   2740   25.7 %
 20 GullChess 2.2 x64              : 2962   13  13  1590    62.5 %   2873   42.1 %
 21 Komodo 3.0 x64                 : 2959   15  15  1600    75.2 %   2766   33.1 %
 22 IvanHoe B46fB x64              : 2957   15  15  1400    74.3 %   2773   35.0 %
 23 Komodo 4.0 x64                 : 2956   15  15  1600    75.5 %   2761   31.6 %
 24 IvanHoe 999946f x64            : 2956   15  15  1480    73.0 %   2783   34.4 %
 25 Rybka 4 Exp.42 x64             : 2955   13  13  1920    71.1 %   2799   32.2 %
 26 Critter 1.2 x64                : 2953   14  14  1800    74.8 %   2765   34.6 %
 27 Houdini 1.03a x64              : 2952   20  20  1000    79.5 %   2716   29.5 %
 28 Rybka 4.1 SSE42 x64            : 2952   13  13  1740    59.7 %   2884   41.3 %
 29 Rybka 4.1 x64                  : 2947   13  13  1960    70.9 %   2793   37.0 %
 30 Stockfish 2.1.1 JA x64 PHQ     : 2947   15  15  1440    73.2 %   2773   34.7 %
 31 Rybka 4 x64                    : 2946   17  16  1480    80.2 %   2703   28.3 %
 32 Critter 1.2 w32                : 2944   16  16  1200    74.8 %   2755   35.8 %
 33 IvanHoe B49jA x64              : 2941   17  17  1160    75.8 %   2742   33.5 %
 34 IvanHoe B47cB x64              : 2940   13  13  1800    70.7 %   2787   38.7 %
 35 Fire 2.2 xTreme x64            : 2939   13  13  1840    72.5 %   2770   36.6 %
 36 Fire 1.5 xTreme x64            : 2937   15  15  1400    72.9 %   2765   35.8 %
 37 IvanHoe B52aC x64              : 2936   19  18  1000    76.4 %   2731   33.8 %
 38 Stockfish 2.1.1 JA x64         : 2927   13  13  2000    70.5 %   2776   36.4 %
 39 Komodo 2.03 JA x64             : 2925   16  15  1480    72.9 %   2753   31.1 %
 40 RobboLito 0.09 x64             : 2915   14  14  1640    71.5 %   2756   35.7 %
 41 Rybka 3 x64                    : 2914   20  20  1000    79.2 %   2682   27.6 %
 42 Fire 1.31 x64                  : 2914   18  17  1040    73.3 %   2738   36.6 %
 43 Fire 2.2 xTreme w32            : 2911   15  15  1240    70.3 %   2761   40.5 %
 44 Stockfish 1.8.0 JA x64         : 2910   18  17  1160    75.2 %   2718   32.1 %
 45 Stockfish 2.1.1 JA w32         : 2910   15  15  1240    70.2 %   2761   39.7 %
 46 Stockfish 2.0.1 JA x64         : 2909   16  16  1120    69.0 %   2770   37.9 %
 47 Stockfish 1.9.1 JA x64         : 2909   16  16  1240    72.1 %   2744   34.4 %
 48 Stockfish 1.9.1 JA w32         : 2908   19  19  1000    77.3 %   2695   31.4 %
 49 Stockfish 1.7.1 JA x64         : 2907   18  18  1080    75.8 %   2708   33.2 %
 50 Rybka 4.1 w32                  : 2905   16  16  1240    69.6 %   2761   37.7 %
 51 Rybka 4 w32                    : 2902   17  17  1200    76.3 %   2699   31.6 %
 52 Chiron 2.0 x64                 : 2900   14  14  1400    54.8 %   2867   40.9 %
 53 IvanHoe B47cB w32              : 2897   15  15  1240    68.7 %   2761   40.1 %
 54 Critter 1.01 x64               : 2897   15  15  1320    66.5 %   2778   38.0 %
 55 Critter 1.01 w32               : 2890   17  17  1200    72.4 %   2723   33.2 %
 56 Komodo 3.0 w32                 : 2890   16  16  1320    71.5 %   2730   33.2 %
 57 Stockfish 2.0.1 JA w32         : 2884   19  18  1000    76.3 %   2680   33.9 %
 58 Stockfish 1.7.1 JA w32         : 2884   18  17  1200    75.3 %   2690   30.7 %
 59 Critter 0.90 x64               : 2880   16  16  1200    68.5 %   2745   37.1 %
 60 Stockfish 1.8.0 JA w32         : 2878   18  17  1000    73.1 %   2705   37.8 %
 61 Critter 0.90 w32               : 2876   19  19  1000    75.5 %   2681   32.4 %
 62 Hannibal 1.4b x64              : 2871   12  12  1900    49.0 %   2878   40.1 %
 63 Rybka 3 w32                    : 2870   15  15  1520    73.8 %   2690   30.9 %
 64 Komodo 2.03 JA w32             : 2868   17  17  1080    65.4 %   2758   36.7 %
 65 Chiron 1.5 x64                 : 2849   14  14  1490    45.8 %   2878   39.3 %
 66 Protector 1.5.0 JA x64         : 2844   12  12  1940    45.6 %   2874   41.8 %
 67 Komodo 1.3 JA x64              : 2840   15  15  1280    59.3 %   2775   39.5 %
 68 Stockfish 1.6.3 JA w32         : 2838   17  17  1080    71.3 %   2680   36.1 %
 69 Naum 4.2 x64                   : 2831    7   7  5450    54.8 %   2798   37.7 %
 70 Critter 0.80 x64               : 2831   14  14  1600    66.4 %   2713   33.0 %
 71 Senpai 1.0 SSE42 x64           : 2829   17  17  1000    48.3 %   2841   40.2 %
 72 Fritz 13 w32                   : 2827   10  10  2520    60.9 %   2750   41.9 %
 73 Naum 4.2 w32                   : 2826   10  10  3160    64.7 %   2721   37.7 %
 74 Chiron 1.1 x64                 : 2826   14  14  1440    54.3 %   2797   39.7 %
 75 Hiarcs 14 WCSC w32             : 2826   12  12  1940    43.0 %   2875   39.9 %
 76 Jonny 6.00 Yokohama x64        : 2825   13  13  1840    42.1 %   2880   38.0 %
 77 Critter 0.80 w32               : 2821   17  17  1040    67.0 %   2698   37.1 %
 78 Critter 0.70 x64               : 2817   18  17  1000    66.3 %   2700   36.6 %
 79 Naum 4.1 w32                   : 2816   18  18  1000    66.8 %   2695   35.4 %
 80 Stockfish 1.6.0 JA w32         : 2815   17  17  1000    67.0 %   2692   39.4 %
 81 Komodo 1.2 JA x64              : 2807   11  11  2200    61.8 %   2723   39.5 %
 82 Shredder 12 x64 / w32          : 2800    5   5  9940    53.6 %   2775   36.7 %
 83 Texel 1.03 x64                 : 2799   15  15  1350    40.4 %   2866   39.3 %
 84 Sjeng c't 2010 w32             : 2794    6   6  6980    51.4 %   2785   38.1 %
 85 Junior 13.8.04 Yokohama x64    : 2794   14  14  1700    36.4 %   2891   32.3 %
 86 Naum 4.0 w32                   : 2793   17  17  1000    64.8 %   2687   38.3 %
 87 Komodo 1.0 JA x64              : 2792   17  17  1000    64.8 %   2687   39.7 %
 88 GullChess 1.1 x64              : 2791   16  16  1160    56.2 %   2747   36.8 %
 89 GullChess 1.2 x64              : 2790   12  12  2040    49.3 %   2796   39.7 %
 90 Deep Fritz 12 w32              : 2786   13  13  1760    62.0 %   2701   41.2 %
 91 Spike 1.4 Leiden w32           : 2783    6   6  7100    49.7 %   2785   37.0 %
 92 Critter 0.70 w32               : 2781   17  17  1000    59.9 %   2711   39.6 %
 93 Chiron 1.1 w32                 : 2779   15  15  1280    56.2 %   2735   37.0 %
 94 GullChess 1.0a x64             : 2778   14  14  1400    57.8 %   2723   38.4 %
 95 Komodo 1.3 JA w32              : 2777   18  17  1000    63.0 %   2685   36.0 %
 96 Protector 1.4.0 JA x64         : 2771   12  12  2040    46.5 %   2796   35.5 %
 97 Quazar 0.4 x64                 : 2770   13  13  1780    33.3 %   2891   36.1 %
 98 Junior 12.5.03 x64             : 2766   12  12  2160    47.6 %   2783   35.4 %
 99 Spark 1.0 x64                  : 2766    8   8  4380    41.3 %   2826   38.7 %
100 GullChess 1.2 w32              : 2765   15  15  1240    49.9 %   2765   39.2 %
101 Hiarcs 13.2 w32                : 2764    9   9  3920    50.0 %   2764   38.8 %
102 Komodo 1.2 JA w32              : 2762   15  15  1200    58.4 %   2703   40.7 %
103 Booot 5.2.0 x64                : 2758   13  13  1940    33.5 %   2877   35.2 %
104 Junior 12.5.03 w32             : 2756   16  16  1240    48.7 %   2766   34.1 %
105 GullChess 1.0a w32             : 2752   17  17  1000    57.2 %   2702   39.8 %
106 Fritz 12 w32                   : 2752   15  15  1160    58.9 %   2689   44.2 %
107 Hannibal 1.1 x64               : 2747   13  13  1800    45.9 %   2776   37.9 %
108 GullChess 1.1 w32              : 2746   17  17  1000    58.6 %   2686   40.0 %
109 Spark 0.5 x64                  : 2743   12  12  2040    54.2 %   2714   36.6 %
110 Hiarcs 13.1 w32                : 2742   10  10  2840    52.1 %   2727   38.1 %
111 Zappa Mexico II x64            : 2737    7   7  5590    42.2 %   2792   38.6 %
112 Thinker 5.4d Inert x64         : 2734    8   8  4480    44.0 %   2776   36.3 %
113 Stockfish 1.5.1 JA w32         : 2733   16  16  1000    58.7 %   2673   42.5 %
114 Gaviota 1.0 AVX x64            : 2732   18  18  1050    32.7 %   2858   33.0 %
115 Spark 0.4 x64                  : 2723   17  17  1000    54.9 %   2690   39.9 %
116 Spark 1.0 w32                  : 2721   12  12  1980    49.8 %   2722   35.5 %
117 Junior 12.0 x64                : 2721   13  13  1800    44.1 %   2762   32.7 %
118 Protector 1.3.4 JA x64         : 2721   13  13  1680    50.9 %   2714   36.9 %
119 Komodo 1.0 JA w32              : 2718   15  15  1200    53.3 %   2695   39.8 %
120 Fruit 05.07.2009 x64           : 2717    9   9  4320    42.4 %   2771   32.1 %
121 Protector 1.4.0 JA w32         : 2714   12  12  1880    47.7 %   2729   37.9 %
122 Spark 0.5 w32                  : 2712   15  15  1200    51.0 %   2705   40.8 %
123 Protector 1.3.6-370 JA x64     : 2711   16  16  1240    44.4 %   2750   34.0 %
124 Thinker 5.4d Inert w32         : 2711    9   9  3680    48.6 %   2720   41.1 %
125 SmarThink 1.50 SSE3 x64        : 2710   15  15  1450    28.1 %   2873   33.2 %
126 Critter 0.60 x64               : 2709   17  17  1000    52.7 %   2690   38.2 %
127 MinkoChess 1.3 JA x64          : 2705   16  17  1200    29.2 %   2859   34.7 %
128 Hannibal 1.1 w32               : 2702   15  15  1300    43.1 %   2750   40.4 %
129 Equinox 0.97e x64              : 2701   13  13  2000    38.8 %   2780   32.7 %
130 Booot 5.1.0 w32                : 2700   17  17  1080    41.7 %   2758   37.1 %
131 Junior 12.0 w32                : 2698   17  17  1000    51.4 %   2688   34.6 %
132 Sjeng WC-2008 x64              : 2697   13  13  1840    46.5 %   2722   35.2 %
133 Protector 1.3.5 x64            : 2697   16  17  1000    49.8 %   2698   41.4 %
134 Junior 11.2 x64                : 2692   15  15  1480    47.4 %   2710   30.5 %
135 Junior 11.2 w32                : 2690   16  16  1200    47.7 %   2706   32.6 %
136 Hannibal 1.0a x64              : 2690   11  11  2800    39.6 %   2763   34.2 %
137 Doch 1.3.4 JA w32              : 2689   16  16  1000    50.4 %   2686   41.9 %
138 Critter 0.60 w32               : 2688   17  17  1000    48.8 %   2696   38.9 %
139 Onno 1.2.70 x64                : 2685    9   9  4120    37.7 %   2773   33.5 %
140 Cyclone xTreme Wrath w32       : 2685    9   9  3880    39.9 %   2756   36.9 %
141 Umko 1.2 x64                   : 2682   13  13  1760    36.1 %   2781   35.1 %
142 Protector 1.3.4 JA w32         : 2681   13  13  1600    46.9 %   2703   38.8 %
143 Onno 1.1.1 x64                 : 2680   17  17  1000    48.4 %   2691   40.4 %
144 Spark 0.4 w32                  : 2680   16  16  1000    47.9 %   2695   41.8 %
145 Toga II 1.4 Beta 5c w32        : 2676   10  10  3040    39.8 %   2748   35.8 %
146 Protector 1.3.5 JA w32         : 2675   16  16  1000    45.4 %   2708   42.7 %
147 Protector 1.3.2 w32            : 2675   15  15  1160    46.9 %   2696   41.2 %
148 Equinox 0.95 x64               : 2673   16  17  1240    34.7 %   2783   30.7 %
149 Doch 1.2 JA w32                : 2673   17  17  1000    49.1 %   2679   38.2 %
150 Junior 2010 w32                : 2670   15  15  1240    46.8 %   2692   36.2 %
151 Protector 1.3.1b w32           : 2670   16  16  1000    47.2 %   2689   42.2 %
152 Hiarcs 12.1 w32                : 2668   17  17  1000    46.4 %   2693   40.4 %
153 Fruit 05.07.2009 w32           : 2667   17  17  1080    37.3 %   2757   32.2 %
154 Sjeng WC-2008 w32              : 2667   11  11  2240    45.0 %   2702   36.9 %
155 Hiarcs 12.1 w32 Sharpen PV     : 2664   15  15  1280    44.9 %   2700   39.5 %
156 Zappa Mexico II w32            : 2663    9   9  3680    41.8 %   2721   39.3 %
157 Equinox 0.95 w32               : 2662   17  17  1000    46.1 %   2689   36.4 %
158 Junior 11.1a x64               : 2658   18  18  1000    45.1 %   2692   32.7 %
159 Equinox 0.97e w32              : 2658   17  17  1200    34.8 %   2767   32.1 %
160 Doch 09.980 JA w32             : 2656   17  17  1000    47.1 %   2676   41.1 %
161 Spark 0.3a w32                 : 2655   16  16  1120    43.6 %   2699   40.8 %
162 Spark 0.3 w32                  : 2646   16  16  1000    43.1 %   2694   42.0 %
163 Junior 11.1a w32               : 2644   17  17  1000    42.8 %   2695   36.1 %
164 Hannibal 1.0a w32              : 2641   13  13  1760    40.5 %   2708   34.8 %
165 Bright 0.5c w32                : 2640    9  10  3600    35.7 %   2742   32.8 %
166 Umko 1.1 x64                   : 2637   12  12  2240    31.0 %   2776   31.7 %
167 Loop M1-T x64                  : 2637   14  14  1800    30.8 %   2778   32.5 %
168 Loop 2007 x64                  : 2632   11  12  2400    35.7 %   2734   34.2 %
169 Onno 1.2.70 w32                : 2631   11  11  2640    36.3 %   2729   37.7 %
170 Onno 1.1.1 w32                 : 2629   13  14  1520    40.4 %   2696   41.1 %
171 Jonny 4.00 w32                 : 2628    9  10  4000    32.6 %   2754   27.7 %
172 Crafty 23.4 JA x64             : 2625   11  11  2800    28.5 %   2786   29.6 %
173 Equinox 0.87t x64              : 2621   17  17  1240    31.8 %   2753   31.0 %
174 Umko 1.2 w32                   : 2618   16  17  1240    29.4 %   2770   33.1 %
175 Loop 2007 w32                  : 2617   12  12  2000    36.3 %   2714   36.0 %
176 Scorpio 2.7 JA x64             : 2616   14  14  2040    25.8 %   2799   26.7 %
177 Twisted Logic 20100131x x64    : 2616   18  18  1080    35.5 %   2719   31.4 %
178 Umko 1.0 x64, no ponder        : 2616   16  16  1160    34.4 %   2728   37.5 %
179 SmarThink 1.20 x64             : 2615   10  10  3480    30.5 %   2759   30.1 %
180 Fruit 03.11.2005 w32           : 2615   10  10  2880    37.7 %   2702   39.5 %
181 Critter 0.52b w32              : 2612   17  17  1040    37.8 %   2699   36.5 %
182 Loop 13.6 w32                  : 2612   14  14  1520    38.0 %   2697   39.2 %
183 BugChess2 1.9 x64              : 2612   13  13  2080    30.4 %   2755   26.7 %
184 Ktulu 9.03 w32                 : 2611   14  14  1760    36.9 %   2705   31.1 %
185 Glaurung 2.2 JA w32            : 2611   15  16  1260    37.3 %   2701   36.4 %
186 Equinox 0.83 x64               : 2608   17  17  1120    32.2 %   2737   32.1 %
187 Crafty 23.3 JA x64             : 2605   17  17  1160    32.9 %   2728   33.8 %
188 Tornado 4.40 x64               : 2603   13  13  2320    25.5 %   2789   27.7 %
189 SmarThink 1.20 w32             : 2592   10  10  3180    34.1 %   2707   35.3 %
190 Umko 1.1 w32                   : 2590   18  18  1000    35.6 %   2692   33.5 %
191 Crafty 23.4 JA w32             : 2588   16  16  1240    33.2 %   2710   33.4 %
192 Scorpio 2.7 JA w32             : 2583   18  18  1240    25.3 %   2771   28.2 %
193 Cipollino 3.25 x64             : 2579   18  18  1040    30.0 %   2727   30.9 %
194 Equinox 0.83 w32               : 2577   18  18  1000    31.9 %   2709   33.2 %
195 Twisted Logic 20100131x w32    : 2574   15  15  1600    31.6 %   2708   30.4 %
196 Spike 1.2 Turin w32            : 2570   15  15  1480    30.9 %   2709   34.1 %
197 BugChess2 1.7 x64              : 2569   17  17  1240    26.9 %   2743   29.4 %
198 BugChess2 1.9 w32              : 2569   18  18  1240    23.7 %   2772   25.6 %
199 ChessTiger 2007 1.0012 w32     : 2566   10  10  3780    25.8 %   2750   30.2 %
200 Crafty 23.3 JA w32             : 2566   18  19  1000    30.4 %   2709   32.1 %
201 Tornado 4.40 w32               : 2564   15  15  1600    31.0 %   2703   32.0 %
202 BobCat 2.75 x64                : 2564   14  14  1920    24.7 %   2757   29.9 %
203 Scorpio 2.6 JA x64             : 2560   17  18  1160    27.2 %   2730   31.0 %
204 Chronos 1.99 x64, no ponder    : 2559   17  17  1280    26.2 %   2739   31.6 %
205 Crafty 23.2 JA x64             : 2557   18  18  1080    28.0 %   2721   30.4 %
206 Crafty 23.3 JA x64, no ponder  : 2555   19  19  1000    26.2 %   2735   30.2 %
207 Tornado 4.25 x64               : 2546   20  20  1040    25.4 %   2733   24.9 %
208 TheKing 3.50 x64               : 2537   17  17  1440    24.9 %   2728   24.3 %
209 Daydreamer 1.75 JA x64         : 2523   17  17  1240    25.2 %   2712   29.6 %
210 Tornado 3.67 x64               : 2486   20  21  1040    20.9 %   2717   25.0 %
211 Zarkov 6.44 w32                : 2475   14  14  2340    21.1 %   2703   24.3 %

[spacious_mind]

Hi Frank,

Wow!! a lot of information to read through. While I fully understand the ratings that you are considering for the dedicated computers, they are also logical because anyone who has tried it knows that a 2200 rated computer on an engine list smashes a 2200 rated dedicated computer from Schachcomputer.Info for example.


But I still don't buy the reasoning when comparing to humans. At SSDF we know they tested against humans in their club just like you are testing in your club but its not an apples to apples comparison. Because we know that the people played them are familiar with the computer, they know weaknesses that they can exploit because unfortunately you can repeat the same sequence over and over again to obtain the same results.

We cannot even assume that similar rated computer A will play human as tough as similar rated computer B from a different programmer.

Therefore to me these kind of results are not exactly valid. When you play in a Tournament unless you are a GM or IM or FM it is not as likely that you come across the same opponent over and over and over again and therefore its much harder to prepare an anti opponent strategy...besides that opponent very likely if you played him previously will not choose the same opening or even the same strategy as he too remembers having played you.

What interests me is games against a computer where you just play it naturally instead of devising your own anti computer plan because of repetition and not counting the dozens of times that person had previously switched off the computer at home every time he made a mistake before devising his repetition plan.

We are not comparing GM's but average rated players playing an average computer.


If you go to Mike Watters site he has a complete list of CCR magazines with two ratings with hundreds of games listed for each computer for human versus computers with ratings right next to computer versus computer ratings. The human versus computer ELO hardly varies between that and the computer versus computer ELO. These are are ratings where people sent their rating and their game against a computer and included in this are games from where computer played in club tournaments etc. As a result you have a much larger mix of players scores reflected in the rating. There is a difference.


If you study the lichess centipawn charts I posted you can also see by looking closely at for example 1900 ELO player, Super Constellation and 2000 ELO player (look at where I shaded darker):

These stats cannot lie lichess uses the same evaluation criteria over and over again. Its simple stats that can be followed.


Super Constellation has a higher percentage of success below 80 than both 1900 and 2000 ELO player. Super Constellation also makes less big mistakes and blunders ie scores 80 and above. On the flip side a 1900 and 2000 ELO does have the capacity to also make few mistakes ie. 0-20. But that is not the normal game it only happens 10% of the time. So there are pro's for the human and con's for the human (a human will make more big blunders).

What I am saying is that you are comparing something where expectation is beyond what the statistics are showing because of the prepardness of the human to play the computer and lack of blunder which he would normally also make.

The evaluations show normal practice is much different to prepared practice.

With Nigel Short you see the same trend happening as Super Constellation.


The trend only changes with London 68030. London plays a higher percentage of near perfect games drops off in the middle but then again makes less bigger blunders than the humans shown in the chart at both 2300 and 2400 ELO.


So yes I can see you dropping London for example down to 2000 for example because that is how it might perform against 2000 engines but I cannot see it a good comparison for humans. Centipawns stats disprove this. Centipawns also allow you to compare pretty accurately both human and computer.

Lichess btw places the opening at zero centipawns so openings are not a factor meaning it give neither the human or the computer an advantage until after the opening.

What I am trying to achieve btw is a fair indication for a human player of where the computer might be were he to pick it up and just play it and for this other lists are not adequate today.

Best regards
Nick

[Fernando]

Hi,

the Lang module have with 120 Mhz 2.176 SSDF Elo. Wih 300 Mhz max. 2.250 ELO. And in my opinion SSDF is 25-50 to high. So realistic Elo ... if the program by Johan is 100 Elo stronger as the Lang program on 300Mhz = 2.300 Elo, maybe 2.350 Elo.

TheKing 3.23 on 4Ghz and 1 Core on PC have 2.550 Elo. So from where all the Elo should come on 300 Mhz?

Or Johan de Koning made big improvements in the last years but I can't believe it.

Best
Frank

A pleasure to see you here, frank.
Simply said, I believe that real strength of cops or engines against humans is far higher that what commonly is said. I am considering a human that does not play a line he already tried, a human hat does not make take backs, etc.
If you do that, ANY chess computer can take you and rip you because we are prone to mistakes even if we have a better game. People brag a lot about a game they won, but never tell of the many losses and take backs...

TheKing 3.50 in CEGT 2.488 Elo.
In my SWCR Rating List 2.537 Elo ... if Shedder 12 is playing with 2.800 Elo. SWCR Elo on 2.86Ghz.

If Johan hold the old program and the old program is running on 300Mhz is 2.300 Elo more as realistic. But I am sure that TheKing 300Mhz is around 100 Elo or a bit more stronger as Genius on 300Mhz.

Wasp 3.00 today is around 400 Elo stronger as the predesscor Zarkov in my older SWCR list. John Stanback goes all the years his own way in programming, nothing to do with fast engines likes Stockfish and so one. A great work John do here in the last years. You can find many Wasp games on my website. Please make your own statistics to openings and you can see what I wrote about the fantastic style of chess Wasp is playing. In my opinion one of the most interesting programs for a modern chess computer today.

Code: Select all

  1 Houdini 4 STD x64 A            : 3092   17  16  1450    78.8 %   2864   28.6 %
  2 Stockfish 08.02.14 SSE42 x64   : 3075   17  16  1250    79.2 %   2844   34.5 %
  3 Stockfish 05.12.13 SSE42 x64   : 3065   15  15  1350    73.7 %   2886   39.9 %
  4 Houdini 3 Pro x64              : 3055   16  16  1390    74.5 %   2869   32.4 %
  5 Komodo TCECr x64               : 3042   14  14  1600    72.4 %   2874   36.9 %
  6 Stockfish 03.11.13 SSE42 x64   : 3041   17  17  1000    72.8 %   2870   41.1 %
  7 Komodo 6 x64                   : 3019   16  16  1170    69.6 %   2875   38.5 %
  8 Houdini 2.0c x64               : 3014   17  17  1400    79.4 %   2780   28.0 %
  9 GullChess 2.8 Beta BMI2 x64    : 3013   16  15  1300    71.3 %   2854   36.7 %
 10 Houdini 1.5 x64                : 2997   13  13  2320    78.2 %   2775   28.8 %
 11 Critter 1.6a x64               : 2990   13  13  1540    66.1 %   2874   43.1 %
 12 Houdini 1.5 w32                : 2986   18  18  1240    78.8 %   2758   29.0 %
 13 Critter 1.4 x64                : 2977   15  15  1600    77.8 %   2760   31.7 %
 14 Equinox 2.00 x64               : 2975   14  14  1340    64.9 %   2868   41.0 %
 15 Equinox 2.02 x64               : 2975   14  14  1400    63.8 %   2876   41.4 %
 16 Fire 3.0 AVX x64               : 2971   17  17  1100    67.3 %   2845   37.5 %
 17 Rybka 4 Exp.61 x64             : 2968   20  20  1000    78.0 %   2747   26.7 %
 18 Bouquet 1.8 x64                : 2967   13  13  1440    62.2 %   2880   44.4 %
 19 Rybka 4.1 Exp.79 x64           : 2965   19  19  1200    78.5 %   2740   25.7 %
 20 GullChess 2.2 x64              : 2962   13  13  1590    62.5 %   2873   42.1 %
 21 Komodo 3.0 x64                 : 2959   15  15  1600    75.2 %   2766   33.1 %
 22 IvanHoe B46fB x64              : 2957   15  15  1400    74.3 %   2773   35.0 %
 23 Komodo 4.0 x64                 : 2956   15  15  1600    75.5 %   2761   31.6 %
 24 IvanHoe 999946f x64            : 2956   15  15  1480    73.0 %   2783   34.4 %
 25 Rybka 4 Exp.42 x64             : 2955   13  13  1920    71.1 %   2799   32.2 %
 26 Critter 1.2 x64                : 2953   14  14  1800    74.8 %   2765   34.6 %
 27 Houdini 1.03a x64              : 2952   20  20  1000    79.5 %   2716   29.5 %
 28 Rybka 4.1 SSE42 x64            : 2952   13  13  1740    59.7 %   2884   41.3 %
 29 Rybka 4.1 x64                  : 2947   13  13  1960    70.9 %   2793   37.0 %
 30 Stockfish 2.1.1 JA x64 PHQ     : 2947   15  15  1440    73.2 %   2773   34.7 %
 31 Rybka 4 x64                    : 2946   17  16  1480    80.2 %   2703   28.3 %
 32 Critter 1.2 w32                : 2944   16  16  1200    74.8 %   2755   35.8 %
 33 IvanHoe B49jA x64              : 2941   17  17  1160    75.8 %   2742   33.5 %
 34 IvanHoe B47cB x64              : 2940   13  13  1800    70.7 %   2787   38.7 %
 35 Fire 2.2 xTreme x64            : 2939   13  13  1840    72.5 %   2770   36.6 %
 36 Fire 1.5 xTreme x64            : 2937   15  15  1400    72.9 %   2765   35.8 %
 37 IvanHoe B52aC x64              : 2936   19  18  1000    76.4 %   2731   33.8 %
 38 Stockfish 2.1.1 JA x64         : 2927   13  13  2000    70.5 %   2776   36.4 %
 39 Komodo 2.03 JA x64             : 2925   16  15  1480    72.9 %   2753   31.1 %
 40 RobboLito 0.09 x64             : 2915   14  14  1640    71.5 %   2756   35.7 %
 41 Rybka 3 x64                    : 2914   20  20  1000    79.2 %   2682   27.6 %
 42 Fire 1.31 x64                  : 2914   18  17  1040    73.3 %   2738   36.6 %
 43 Fire 2.2 xTreme w32            : 2911   15  15  1240    70.3 %   2761   40.5 %
 44 Stockfish 1.8.0 JA x64         : 2910   18  17  1160    75.2 %   2718   32.1 %
 45 Stockfish 2.1.1 JA w32         : 2910   15  15  1240    70.2 %   2761   39.7 %
 46 Stockfish 2.0.1 JA x64         : 2909   16  16  1120    69.0 %   2770   37.9 %
 47 Stockfish 1.9.1 JA x64         : 2909   16  16  1240    72.1 %   2744   34.4 %
 48 Stockfish 1.9.1 JA w32         : 2908   19  19  1000    77.3 %   2695   31.4 %
 49 Stockfish 1.7.1 JA x64         : 2907   18  18  1080    75.8 %   2708   33.2 %
 50 Rybka 4.1 w32                  : 2905   16  16  1240    69.6 %   2761   37.7 %
 51 Rybka 4 w32                    : 2902   17  17  1200    76.3 %   2699   31.6 %
 52 Chiron 2.0 x64                 : 2900   14  14  1400    54.8 %   2867   40.9 %
 53 IvanHoe B47cB w32              : 2897   15  15  1240    68.7 %   2761   40.1 %
 54 Critter 1.01 x64               : 2897   15  15  1320    66.5 %   2778   38.0 %
 55 Critter 1.01 w32               : 2890   17  17  1200    72.4 %   2723   33.2 %
 56 Komodo 3.0 w32                 : 2890   16  16  1320    71.5 %   2730   33.2 %
 57 Stockfish 2.0.1 JA w32         : 2884   19  18  1000    76.3 %   2680   33.9 %
 58 Stockfish 1.7.1 JA w32         : 2884   18  17  1200    75.3 %   2690   30.7 %
 59 Critter 0.90 x64               : 2880   16  16  1200    68.5 %   2745   37.1 %
 60 Stockfish 1.8.0 JA w32         : 2878   18  17  1000    73.1 %   2705   37.8 %
 61 Critter 0.90 w32               : 2876   19  19  1000    75.5 %   2681   32.4 %
 62 Hannibal 1.4b x64              : 2871   12  12  1900    49.0 %   2878   40.1 %
 63 Rybka 3 w32                    : 2870   15  15  1520    73.8 %   2690   30.9 %
 64 Komodo 2.03 JA w32             : 2868   17  17  1080    65.4 %   2758   36.7 %
 65 Chiron 1.5 x64                 : 2849   14  14  1490    45.8 %   2878   39.3 %
 66 Protector 1.5.0 JA x64         : 2844   12  12  1940    45.6 %   2874   41.8 %
 67 Komodo 1.3 JA x64              : 2840   15  15  1280    59.3 %   2775   39.5 %
 68 Stockfish 1.6.3 JA w32         : 2838   17  17  1080    71.3 %   2680   36.1 %
 69 Naum 4.2 x64                   : 2831    7   7  5450    54.8 %   2798   37.7 %
 70 Critter 0.80 x64               : 2831   14  14  1600    66.4 %   2713   33.0 %
 71 Senpai 1.0 SSE42 x64           : 2829   17  17  1000    48.3 %   2841   40.2 %
 72 Fritz 13 w32                   : 2827   10  10  2520    60.9 %   2750   41.9 %
 73 Naum 4.2 w32                   : 2826   10  10  3160    64.7 %   2721   37.7 %
 74 Chiron 1.1 x64                 : 2826   14  14  1440    54.3 %   2797   39.7 %
 75 Hiarcs 14 WCSC w32             : 2826   12  12  1940    43.0 %   2875   39.9 %
 76 Jonny 6.00 Yokohama x64        : 2825   13  13  1840    42.1 %   2880   38.0 %
 77 Critter 0.80 w32               : 2821   17  17  1040    67.0 %   2698   37.1 %
 78 Critter 0.70 x64               : 2817   18  17  1000    66.3 %   2700   36.6 %
 79 Naum 4.1 w32                   : 2816   18  18  1000    66.8 %   2695   35.4 %
 80 Stockfish 1.6.0 JA w32         : 2815   17  17  1000    67.0 %   2692   39.4 %
 81 Komodo 1.2 JA x64              : 2807   11  11  2200    61.8 %   2723   39.5 %
 82 Shredder 12 x64 / w32          : 2800    5   5  9940    53.6 %   2775   36.7 %
 83 Texel 1.03 x64                 : 2799   15  15  1350    40.4 %   2866   39.3 %
 84 Sjeng c't 2010 w32             : 2794    6   6  6980    51.4 %   2785   38.1 %
 85 Junior 13.8.04 Yokohama x64    : 2794   14  14  1700    36.4 %   2891   32.3 %
 86 Naum 4.0 w32                   : 2793   17  17  1000    64.8 %   2687   38.3 %
 87 Komodo 1.0 JA x64              : 2792   17  17  1000    64.8 %   2687   39.7 %
 88 GullChess 1.1 x64              : 2791   16  16  1160    56.2 %   2747   36.8 %
 89 GullChess 1.2 x64              : 2790   12  12  2040    49.3 %   2796   39.7 %
 90 Deep Fritz 12 w32              : 2786   13  13  1760    62.0 %   2701   41.2 %
 91 Spike 1.4 Leiden w32           : 2783    6   6  7100    49.7 %   2785   37.0 %
 92 Critter 0.70 w32               : 2781   17  17  1000    59.9 %   2711   39.6 %
 93 Chiron 1.1 w32                 : 2779   15  15  1280    56.2 %   2735   37.0 %
 94 GullChess 1.0a x64             : 2778   14  14  1400    57.8 %   2723   38.4 %
 95 Komodo 1.3 JA w32              : 2777   18  17  1000    63.0 %   2685   36.0 %
 96 Protector 1.4.0 JA x64         : 2771   12  12  2040    46.5 %   2796   35.5 %
 97 Quazar 0.4 x64                 : 2770   13  13  1780    33.3 %   2891   36.1 %
 98 Junior 12.5.03 x64             : 2766   12  12  2160    47.6 %   2783   35.4 %
 99 Spark 1.0 x64                  : 2766    8   8  4380    41.3 %   2826   38.7 %
100 GullChess 1.2 w32              : 2765   15  15  1240    49.9 %   2765   39.2 %
101 Hiarcs 13.2 w32                : 2764    9   9  3920    50.0 %   2764   38.8 %
102 Komodo 1.2 JA w32              : 2762   15  15  1200    58.4 %   2703   40.7 %
103 Booot 5.2.0 x64                : 2758   13  13  1940    33.5 %   2877   35.2 %
104 Junior 12.5.03 w32             : 2756   16  16  1240    48.7 %   2766   34.1 %
105 GullChess 1.0a w32             : 2752   17  17  1000    57.2 %   2702   39.8 %
106 Fritz 12 w32                   : 2752   15  15  1160    58.9 %   2689   44.2 %
107 Hannibal 1.1 x64               : 2747   13  13  1800    45.9 %   2776   37.9 %
108 GullChess 1.1 w32              : 2746   17  17  1000    58.6 %   2686   40.0 %
109 Spark 0.5 x64                  : 2743   12  12  2040    54.2 %   2714   36.6 %
110 Hiarcs 13.1 w32                : 2742   10  10  2840    52.1 %   2727   38.1 %
111 Zappa Mexico II x64            : 2737    7   7  5590    42.2 %   2792   38.6 %
112 Thinker 5.4d Inert x64         : 2734    8   8  4480    44.0 %   2776   36.3 %
113 Stockfish 1.5.1 JA w32         : 2733   16  16  1000    58.7 %   2673   42.5 %
114 Gaviota 1.0 AVX x64            : 2732   18  18  1050    32.7 %   2858   33.0 %
115 Spark 0.4 x64                  : 2723   17  17  1000    54.9 %   2690   39.9 %
116 Spark 1.0 w32                  : 2721   12  12  1980    49.8 %   2722   35.5 %
117 Junior 12.0 x64                : 2721   13  13  1800    44.1 %   2762   32.7 %
118 Protector 1.3.4 JA x64         : 2721   13  13  1680    50.9 %   2714   36.9 %
119 Komodo 1.0 JA w32              : 2718   15  15  1200    53.3 %   2695   39.8 %
120 Fruit 05.07.2009 x64           : 2717    9   9  4320    42.4 %   2771   32.1 %
121 Protector 1.4.0 JA w32         : 2714   12  12  1880    47.7 %   2729   37.9 %
122 Spark 0.5 w32                  : 2712   15  15  1200    51.0 %   2705   40.8 %
123 Protector 1.3.6-370 JA x64     : 2711   16  16  1240    44.4 %   2750   34.0 %
124 Thinker 5.4d Inert w32         : 2711    9   9  3680    48.6 %   2720   41.1 %
125 SmarThink 1.50 SSE3 x64        : 2710   15  15  1450    28.1 %   2873   33.2 %
126 Critter 0.60 x64               : 2709   17  17  1000    52.7 %   2690   38.2 %
127 MinkoChess 1.3 JA x64          : 2705   16  17  1200    29.2 %   2859   34.7 %
128 Hannibal 1.1 w32               : 2702   15  15  1300    43.1 %   2750   40.4 %
129 Equinox 0.97e x64              : 2701   13  13  2000    38.8 %   2780   32.7 %
130 Booot 5.1.0 w32                : 2700   17  17  1080    41.7 %   2758   37.1 %
131 Junior 12.0 w32                : 2698   17  17  1000    51.4 %   2688   34.6 %
132 Sjeng WC-2008 x64              : 2697   13  13  1840    46.5 %   2722   35.2 %
133 Protector 1.3.5 x64            : 2697   16  17  1000    49.8 %   2698   41.4 %
134 Junior 11.2 x64                : 2692   15  15  1480    47.4 %   2710   30.5 %
135 Junior 11.2 w32                : 2690   16  16  1200    47.7 %   2706   32.6 %
136 Hannibal 1.0a x64              : 2690   11  11  2800    39.6 %   2763   34.2 %
137 Doch 1.3.4 JA w32              : 2689   16  16  1000    50.4 %   2686   41.9 %
138 Critter 0.60 w32               : 2688   17  17  1000    48.8 %   2696   38.9 %
139 Onno 1.2.70 x64                : 2685    9   9  4120    37.7 %   2773   33.5 %
140 Cyclone xTreme Wrath w32       : 2685    9   9  3880    39.9 %   2756   36.9 %
141 Umko 1.2 x64                   : 2682   13  13  1760    36.1 %   2781   35.1 %
142 Protector 1.3.4 JA w32         : 2681   13  13  1600    46.9 %   2703   38.8 %
143 Onno 1.1.1 x64                 : 2680   17  17  1000    48.4 %   2691   40.4 %
144 Spark 0.4 w32                  : 2680   16  16  1000    47.9 %   2695   41.8 %
145 Toga II 1.4 Beta 5c w32        : 2676   10  10  3040    39.8 %   2748   35.8 %
146 Protector 1.3.5 JA w32         : 2675   16  16  1000    45.4 %   2708   42.7 %
147 Protector 1.3.2 w32            : 2675   15  15  1160    46.9 %   2696   41.2 %
148 Equinox 0.95 x64               : 2673   16  17  1240    34.7 %   2783   30.7 %
149 Doch 1.2 JA w32                : 2673   17  17  1000    49.1 %   2679   38.2 %
150 Junior 2010 w32                : 2670   15  15  1240    46.8 %   2692   36.2 %
151 Protector 1.3.1b w32           : 2670   16  16  1000    47.2 %   2689   42.2 %
152 Hiarcs 12.1 w32                : 2668   17  17  1000    46.4 %   2693   40.4 %
153 Fruit 05.07.2009 w32           : 2667   17  17  1080    37.3 %   2757   32.2 %
154 Sjeng WC-2008 w32              : 2667   11  11  2240    45.0 %   2702   36.9 %
155 Hiarcs 12.1 w32 Sharpen PV     : 2664   15  15  1280    44.9 %   2700   39.5 %
156 Zappa Mexico II w32            : 2663    9   9  3680    41.8 %   2721   39.3 %
157 Equinox 0.95 w32               : 2662   17  17  1000    46.1 %   2689   36.4 %
158 Junior 11.1a x64               : 2658   18  18  1000    45.1 %   2692   32.7 %
159 Equinox 0.97e w32              : 2658   17  17  1200    34.8 %   2767   32.1 %
160 Doch 09.980 JA w32             : 2656   17  17  1000    47.1 %   2676   41.1 %
161 Spark 0.3a w32                 : 2655   16  16  1120    43.6 %   2699   40.8 %
162 Spark 0.3 w32                  : 2646   16  16  1000    43.1 %   2694   42.0 %
163 Junior 11.1a w32               : 2644   17  17  1000    42.8 %   2695   36.1 %
164 Hannibal 1.0a w32              : 2641   13  13  1760    40.5 %   2708   34.8 %
165 Bright 0.5c w32                : 2640    9  10  3600    35.7 %   2742   32.8 %
166 Umko 1.1 x64                   : 2637   12  12  2240    31.0 %   2776   31.7 %
167 Loop M1-T x64                  : 2637   14  14  1800    30.8 %   2778   32.5 %
168 Loop 2007 x64                  : 2632   11  12  2400    35.7 %   2734   34.2 %
169 Onno 1.2.70 w32                : 2631   11  11  2640    36.3 %   2729   37.7 %
170 Onno 1.1.1 w32                 : 2629   13  14  1520    40.4 %   2696   41.1 %
171 Jonny 4.00 w32                 : 2628    9  10  4000    32.6 %   2754   27.7 %
172 Crafty 23.4 JA x64             : 2625   11  11  2800    28.5 %   2786   29.6 %
173 Equinox 0.87t x64              : 2621   17  17  1240    31.8 %   2753   31.0 %
174 Umko 1.2 w32                   : 2618   16  17  1240    29.4 %   2770   33.1 %
175 Loop 2007 w32                  : 2617   12  12  2000    36.3 %   2714   36.0 %
176 Scorpio 2.7 JA x64             : 2616   14  14  2040    25.8 %   2799   26.7 %
177 Twisted Logic 20100131x x64    : 2616   18  18  1080    35.5 %   2719   31.4 %
178 Umko 1.0 x64, no ponder        : 2616   16  16  1160    34.4 %   2728   37.5 %
179 SmarThink 1.20 x64             : 2615   10  10  3480    30.5 %   2759   30.1 %
180 Fruit 03.11.2005 w32           : 2615   10  10  2880    37.7 %   2702   39.5 %
181 Critter 0.52b w32              : 2612   17  17  1040    37.8 %   2699   36.5 %
182 Loop 13.6 w32                  : 2612   14  14  1520    38.0 %   2697   39.2 %
183 BugChess2 1.9 x64              : 2612   13  13  2080    30.4 %   2755   26.7 %
184 Ktulu 9.03 w32                 : 2611   14  14  1760    36.9 %   2705   31.1 %
185 Glaurung 2.2 JA w32            : 2611   15  16  1260    37.3 %   2701   36.4 %
186 Equinox 0.83 x64               : 2608   17  17  1120    32.2 %   2737   32.1 %
187 Crafty 23.3 JA x64             : 2605   17  17  1160    32.9 %   2728   33.8 %
188 Tornado 4.40 x64               : 2603   13  13  2320    25.5 %   2789   27.7 %
189 SmarThink 1.20 w32             : 2592   10  10  3180    34.1 %   2707   35.3 %
190 Umko 1.1 w32                   : 2590   18  18  1000    35.6 %   2692   33.5 %
191 Crafty 23.4 JA w32             : 2588   16  16  1240    33.2 %   2710   33.4 %
192 Scorpio 2.7 JA w32             : 2583   18  18  1240    25.3 %   2771   28.2 %
193 Cipollino 3.25 x64             : 2579   18  18  1040    30.0 %   2727   30.9 %
194 Equinox 0.83 w32               : 2577   18  18  1000    31.9 %   2709   33.2 %
195 Twisted Logic 20100131x w32    : 2574   15  15  1600    31.6 %   2708   30.4 %
196 Spike 1.2 Turin w32            : 2570   15  15  1480    30.9 %   2709   34.1 %
197 BugChess2 1.7 x64              : 2569   17  17  1240    26.9 %   2743   29.4 %
198 BugChess2 1.9 w32              : 2569   18  18  1240    23.7 %   2772   25.6 %
199 ChessTiger 2007 1.0012 w32     : 2566   10  10  3780    25.8 %   2750   30.2 %
200 Crafty 23.3 JA w32             : 2566   18  19  1000    30.4 %   2709   32.1 %
201 Tornado 4.40 w32               : 2564   15  15  1600    31.0 %   2703   32.0 %
202 BobCat 2.75 x64                : 2564   14  14  1920    24.7 %   2757   29.9 %
203 Scorpio 2.6 JA x64             : 2560   17  18  1160    27.2 %   2730   31.0 %
204 Chronos 1.99 x64, no ponder    : 2559   17  17  1280    26.2 %   2739   31.6 %
205 Crafty 23.2 JA x64             : 2557   18  18  1080    28.0 %   2721   30.4 %
206 Crafty 23.3 JA x64, no ponder  : 2555   19  19  1000    26.2 %   2735   30.2 %
207 Tornado 4.25 x64               : 2546   20  20  1040    25.4 %   2733   24.9 %
208 TheKing 3.50 x64               : 2537   17  17  1440    24.9 %   2728   24.3 %
209 Daydreamer 1.75 JA x64         : 2523   17  17  1240    25.2 %   2712   29.6 %
210 Tornado 3.67 x64               : 2486   20  21  1040    20.9 %   2717   25.0 %
211 Zarkov 6.44 w32                : 2475   14  14  2340    21.1 %   2703   24.3 %

[spacious_mind]

Wonder if Millennium will sell the Exclusive board separately. Don't need two Lang's.

I think they should really especially for people wanting two separate boards one for each module. It's crazy otherwise!

Millennium 2000 is down for a few days. Have they changed the link or gone bust?

I've also noticed this but guessing they are updating their site with information on the new King module. However, their web site has not been working properly for a long time. Sometime ago they had information for both the King and Blutooth modules but this disappeared.

I don't think they have gone bust, or at least hope they haven't. The new King module is set to be released this November so they are still around. Just hope their web site appears again!

Watching and hoping Regards
Ray

Good news the Millennium 2000 site is up and running again.

Best regards

[Yarc]

Good news the Millennium 2000 site is up and running again.
Best regards

Yes, I have noticed it's back although anyone wanting to download the manuals or software updates for the Exclusive will be out of luck.

I e-mailed them today with a feature suggestion for the new 'Millennium King Element' as it's called. I have read it's possible to create three personalities and store these in the Exclusive's memory. Now that is a nice feature so I asked if it was possible to backup these settings to PC via the USB lead. I had a reply today and although this probably is not currently possible the person thought it was a nice idea.

With this we could create several personalities and share them with others if desired.

Regards

Ray

[spacious_mind]

Good news the Millennium 2000 site is up and running again.
Best regards

Yes, I have noticed it's back although anyone wanting to download the manuals or software updates for the Exclusive will be out of luck.

I e-mailed them today with a feature suggestion for the new 'Millennium King Element' as it's called. I have read it's possible to create three personalities and store these in the Exclusive's memory. Now that is a nice feature so I asked if it was possible to backup these settings to PC via the USB lead. I had a reply today and although this probably is not currently possible the person thought it was a nice idea.

With this we could create several personalities and share them with others if desired.

Regards

Ray

That is a nice idea. That brings you back to the Chessmaster days when we all spent hours creating personalities and playing them.

Best regards

[Yarc]

That is a nice idea. That brings you back to the Chessmaster days when we all spent hours creating personalities and playing them.

Best regards

Yes indeed, and as Millennium seem to be a company receptive to customer suggestions we may be lucky. If I get any feedback I'll post here.

Regards

Ray

[donkeylane]

Looking forward to the arrival of the Millennium King program,even more so to see how it fares in a 20 game match against the original, and still top drawer,Tasc R30. I do recall, when the MCGE was released last year, there did seem to be a few opinions that the R30 would come off second best against it.Well,after a year of both computers, I have always found the match scores, as well as the actual games themselves, close run encounters.Regards Steve C.

[franco88]

I just emailed Raphael from Chesshouse who wrote me that the King Element can be preordered now and he will start shipping in early November.
He has a nice article on his blog at Chesshouse.com on this new module.
Normally the King Element sells for $220, but I asked for our group to receive a discount. He replied by saying that if you put in "HIARCS" under discount code you will receive a $30 discount so the price will be $190 until the end of October 2018.
He also wrote that he will post a link in Hiarcs next week, but I already preordered the King Element with the $30 discount.

[ChessHouse]

Frank, thanks for prompting me to join in here on Hiarcs. There were rumors of this King program by Konig for over a year and I was asked from time to time. Having met with the Millennium guys in Munich last year I can assure you they are continuing to innovate and listen to all feedback. In fact Exclusive was in large part response to market input, although mostly from those in Germany. I'm in regular contact with Millennium team.

Generally with Millennium, what I'd most like to see is more reliable and user friendly updates processing and information (much of this is simply their DE language preference which is understandable). I know there were issues with their site being down lately. I was reassured that it was a transition that's still going on as of late.

But onto the BIG news for the day - release of the King Element module by Johan Konig! As Frank mentioned, we're now booking preorders for it. I'm so excited to receive it early Nov! Here's the blog post announcing it.
https://www.chesshouse.com/blogs/news/t ... s-computer

Thanks to Franks suggestion, here is a way for Hiarcs forum members to get the best price from U.S. source. This is a coupon code "HIARCS" for $30 off this module during October 2018. In fact this link will pre-apply it and bring you right to the product where you can order it now. https://www.chesshouse.com/discount/HIA ... s-computer

As of now, I expect it to be shipping from Lynden, WA around Nov 12-15. That's a rough estimate but it will be as soon as it's available in the U.S.

[Steve B]

here is a way for Hiarcs forum members to get the best price from U.S. source. This is a coupon code "HIARCS" for $30 off this module during October 2018. In fact this link will pre-apply it and bring you right to the product where you can order it now. https://www.chesshouse.com/discount/HIA ... s-computer

Thanks for the Hiarcs Discount
i clicked on link above and there is no pre-applied discount
when i click on Pre-order and go to checkout the price is $220
actually i can find nowhere to use the discount

Squinting Regards
Steve

[Yarc]

Thanks for the Hiarcs Discount
i clicked on link above and there is no pre-applied discount
when i click on Pre-order and go to checkout the price is $220
actually i can find nowhere to use the discount

Squinting Regards
Steve

Hi Steve, I just tried the link and the HIARCS code was already entered. I could see a small grey box with HIARCS text. I quickly cancelled the order because already pre-ordered one from Schachversan Niggemann. As this was a pre-order they offered free delivery. I don't think it would have been worth me ordering from chesshouse because of import duties.

Maybe a temporary glitch Regards
Ray

[Steve B]

Thanks for the Hiarcs Discount
i clicked on link above and there is no pre-applied discount
when i click on Pre-order and go to checkout the price is $220
actually i can find nowhere to use the discount

Squinting Regards
Steve

Hi Steve, I just tried the link and the HIARCS code was already entered. I could see a small grey box with HIARCS text. I quickly cancelled the order because already pre-ordered one from Schachversan Niggemann. As this was a pre-order they offered free delivery. I don't think it would have been worth me ordering from chesshouse because of import duties.

Maybe a temporary glitch Regards
Ray

Hi Ray
found the discount and pre-ordered
Chess House also offered free shipping so total cost was $190

seems everone in Germany has got theirs already(all of those "official testers")
so we folks here in the states are last on the list to get them i guess


Best Regards Buddy
Steve

[Scally]

Thanks, the discount worked for me

It paid the shipping to the U.K.


Cheers,

Al.