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I agree with you in almost all aspects.. but regarding chessmachines it has always depended on who you talk to. As many collectors as you may have discussed this with there are at least as many collectors if not more who do not agree with the exclusion of Chessmachines as a dedicated computer.
Hence back to our original discussion It is an opinion of some and not of others. You do not have dedicated consensus on a Chessmachine
Your standpoint for yourself however I do totally understand and respect.
I agree with you in almost all aspects.. but regarding chessmachines it has always depended on who you talk to. As many collectors as you may have discussed this with there are at least as many collectors if not more who do not agree with the exclusion of Chessmachines as a dedicated computer.
Hence back to our original discussion It is an opinion of some and not of others. You do not have dedicated consensus on a Chessmachine
Your standpoint for yourself however I do totally understand and respect.
Best regards
well I have been discussing dedicated chess computers for 40 years
well before the internet and Ebay
(actually this May makes 40 years since the release of the very first commercially available chess computer)
by mail, by phone.by overseas phone calls and then in the last 20 years by the internet..
I don't see the definition as a matter of opinion but its perfectly OK with me if you or others choose to use a different definition in order to get your chess cards to fit that definition
personally I don't see this as a big issue
I have no interest in these things to begin with
recently I opened the Phoenix Reflection Module and what did I discover: An Odroid single-board computer as basis.
Now the question: Is this module a dedicated chess computer (together with the Mephisto board of course)?
I would answer yes, because the device can only play chess - I would answer no, because with an Odroid single-board computer you can realize other appllications as chess, that is to say office applications, hear music or whatever.
Meantimes things are not so clear as in the 70th and 80th....
recently I opened the Phoenix Reflection Module and what did I discover: An Odroid single-board computer as basis.
Now the question: Is this module a dedicated chess computer (together with the Mephisto board of course)?
I would answer yes, because the device can only play chess - I would answer no, because with an Odroid single-board computer you can realize other appllications as chess, that is to say office applications, hear music or whatever.
Meantimes things are not so clear as in the 70th and 80th....
"A chess device is a unique piece of hardware whose sole intention is to play chess at a constant performance."
Michael,
It depends in my opinion.
Resurrection and Revelation I know them because I have them and they are dedicated. They both play at a constant speed.
Once it starts having sliders that go up and down to play at different speeds then it becomes a simulation and therefore a dedicated PC chess computer.
I don't know the Reflection module can you change speeds on it?
Anyway that's just how I classify them and it should not detract in its value and enjoyment factor. If the Reflection has the same programs as Revelation then I would enjoy it just as much regardless of how I would classify it.
Best regards
PS... A Dedicated Chess Program Simulator might be an even more appropriate name in some cases Assuming Chris Whittington allows the use of Simulator
Last edited by spacious_mind on Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
recently I opened the Phoenix Reflection Module and what did I discover: An Odroid single-board computer as basis.
Now the question: Is this module a dedicated chess computer (together with the Mephisto board of course)?
I would answer yes, because the device can only play chess
Period..that says it all
when you turn on the computer if all you can do is play chess then it is a dedicated chess computer
the fact that it has the potential to perform other applications if you modify it in some way or attach different equipment to it does not alter the fact that in its current state it can only play chess .once you do utilize the other potential applications ..you no longer have a dedicated chess computer
Steve B wrote:
personally I don't see this as a big issue
I have no interest in these things to begin with
Best Regards
Steve
Me neither Steve It's a Forum debate that has been going on for how many years now?
Inconclusive discussion regards...
let me tell you I really tried to get the Wundermachine to meet the definition of a dedicated chess computer
(I wont tell you what I paid for it..but suffice it to say my wife had to skip many meals until it was all paid up)
anyway..i stretched and squirmed ..tried defining it in different languages ..all to no avail..in the end I had to suck it up and admit it did not meet the strict definition and as a result I do not count it in my official list
Steve B wrote:
personally I don't see this as a big issue
I have no interest in these things to begin with
Best Regards
Steve
Me neither Steve It's a Forum debate that has been going on for how many years now?
Inconclusive discussion regards...
let me tell you I really tried to get the Wundermachine to meet the definition of a dedicated chess computer
(I wont tell you what I paid for it..but suffice it to say my wife had to skip many meals until it was all paid up)
anyway..i stretched and squirmed ..tried defining it in different languages ..all to no avail..in the end I had to suck it up and admit it did not meet the strict definition and as a result I do not count it in my official list
so at least I ....
I Practice What I Preach Regards
Steve
Well since the only thing you have on the Wundermachine is a chess program I would still call it dedicated myself. To me it doesn't really matter what other uses the hard drive could be used for, if all it has is a chess program.
I mean technically not all the ROM space was always used on dedicated units there is spare space available on many of them that could have been put to another use as per your Wundermachine hard drive.
I just hope whichever way you classify it, that it hasn't detracted in your enjoyment of playing this unique machine.
spacious_mind wrote:
Well since the only thing you have on the Wundermachine is a chess program I would still call it dedicated myself. To me it doesn't really matter what other uses the hard drive could be used for, if all it has is a chess program.
Sadly the entire windows 3.1 operating system is functioning with the Genius 2 and 5 programs as dos program icons I click on
copy of screen:
nevertheless I am very content owning it ..as the computer is an icon of the evolution of computerized chess..serving as the bridge from stand alone units to the migration over to the PC
spacious_mind wrote:
Well since the only thing you have on the Wundermachine is a chess program I would still call it dedicated myself. To me it doesn't really matter what other uses the hard drive could be used for, if all it has is a chess program.
Sadly the entire windows 3.1 operating system is functioning with the Genius programs as dos program icons I click on
copy of screen:
nevertheless I am very content owning it ..as the computer is an icon of the evolution of computerized chess..serving as the bridge from stand alone units to the migration over to the PC
The Larger Picture Regards
Steve
Outch there was no need for that. Both probably could have been loaded under DOS. I am guessing its because of the Chessboard representation on the screen does it look like written for windows or something that is also exclusively DOS?
When I play DOS programs on my old computers or even the chesscards (not intended to rehash it), most of those old computers don't even have windows on them as I see it as a waste of load time. So the computers turn on in DOS and I just go to the program folder of a DOS chess program and play.
I have even gone to the extent that in order to play them properly against each other where I have for that purpose two identical 286, 386 and 486 computers as you cannot play two programs on the same computer.
Windows is only useful for a program that was written for Windows and doesn't work under DOS. For example Chessmaster 4000.
Understood - (functionally) dedicated vs (in the eyes of the beholder) collectible.
An issue that influences how I feel about a dedicated chess computer is whether the chess program runs on top of a generic operating system, e.g picochess engines running on top of Raspbian Linux, or Wundermachine running on top of DOS/Windows. My perception - maybe incorrect? - is that the old machines, say Super Constellation or Milano, ran off of software that was built only for the purpose of responding to user input and playing chess. DOS/Windows/Linux do a lot more than that, of course.
A program that really impresses me, in terms of strength per byte of code, is Morsch's GK2000. "Tiny" 16K program that defeats me more often than I care to admit. Lean, mean, fighting machine.
(Sorry, I know this started off as a TASC thread).
spacious_mind wrote:
I don't know the Reflection module can you change speeds on it?
yes, that's possible!
Definitions are valid as long as you change them...
Relaxed Regards, Michael
Right, Michael... with all the home build chess computers and the new hardware, and hardware that utilizes these Emulators, it does need some redefining to encompass it all. That is kind of what I am trying to do for me with all the ones I have.
spacious_mind wrote:
Sorry forgot to say... so Reflection Module has become a Dedicated Chess Programs Simulator ?
Best regards
I had to laugh when i saw this
you dont consider the Reflection module as a genuine dedicated chess computer ...but...you do count the Chess Card as one
It is an opinion of some and not of others. You do not have dedicated consensus on a Chessmachine 
