New to the forum, and some other stuff :-)
Moderators: Harvey Williamson, Steve B, Watchman
Forum rules
This textbox is used to restore diagrams posted with the fen tag before the upgrade.
This textbox is used to restore diagrams posted with the fen tag before the upgrade.
New to the forum, and some other stuff :-)
Hi guys, I registered today at the forum after lurking on and off for some months.
I'm a beginner chess player (from Italy), I discovered the game when I was a little boy but didn't have anybody to play with and lost interest. Six months ago started to look at the game again and I liked it so much I started play with my computer.
And then... I re-discovered the old chess computers you collect and talk about in this forum. I probably saw a couple in a fancy store in the 80s, and I was fascinated at the idea of a computer playing chess.
But nothing happened then.
Now I'm a hobbyist programmer (not chess related), I also somewhat play with electronics (just to learn about it) and computer chess is a nice merge of the two... and moreover it's chess ! All these together for some reason reignited my interested, and I bought some old chess computers on ebay in the last months.
Currently I have:
Fidelity Par Excellence
Bought it because I remember playing Sargon 2 on my VIC 20
I like how it tactically demolish me.
I like how the leds are very visible, round and flat instead of the classical dome shape. Awesome.
Mephisto Milano (with Nigel Short EPROM)
Bought because it's and Ed Schroder program.
I like how it plays positional chess and sometimes it plays like a human.
I like the fact it announces the opening used.
Also defends very well.
I dislike the extremely stupid idea of having to press "memory" before turning it off to keep the current position and settings in memory. It's beyond absurdity.
I dislike the fact you have dismantle the case to replace the 2032 battery.
I dislike the weak display, more on this at the end of this post.
Great, strong, interesting software in a cheap container with some horrible design decisions.
Saitek Centurion
Bought because it's a Frans Morsch program.
Probably it's the one I like most.
I like all the possible levels, I love the nice, big, well contrasted and readable display.
I like the chessboard surface, it's the best of all the chess computers I have.
I like the buttons, soft but not spongy and working well.
Yes, it's has a couple of bugs, but I just love it.
Saitek Eplorer Pro
Bought because it's a kind of "backup" for the Centurion, it was NEW and it was cheap.
Also nice display, and smaller batteries.
Saitek Sensor XL
Bought because it's a Craig Barnes program, it's not too strong, it's cheap and it has a great software.
I say great software beause it has normal levels, beginner levels, depth limited levels, levels in which it positions pieces so you can try to find tactical combinations, can play trying to achieve a closed position, an open position or trying to be very active, and more.
I think it's great for a beginner like me to experiment.
Negatives: small and not very visible leds, repetitive gameplay saved by all the possible styles available, squishy buttons.
SciSys Turbostar 432 with KSO module
Bought because it's a Julio Kaplan program, because it should play differently from the ones above, it was cheap and with the KSO.
I haven't really played with this one yet, so I cannot comment beyond this.
Now, a question:
I scanned the manuals of my Saitek Sensor XL and SciSys Turbostar 432 because the quality of what available on the awesome A. Zanchetta's site was pretty bad (especially for the Turbostar). I would like to send them to him but I didn't find a contact email on the site. Can someone here give me an hint ?
On a similar note... I'm about to buy a Mephisto Europa (not A, the silver one).
Can someone here share a copy of the english manual ? I downloaded the French one because my wife can help me there, but I would like to have the english one. Anybody can help ?
And now... about the Milano/Nigel Short display
I liked the machine but I hated the display. It was readable only when there is plenty of ambient light and I cannot read anything in the evening. I had to use a led torch to select the options. It was unbearable.
So, even if I prefer to keep them in the original state, in this case I replaced the display with another one with back-ligthing.
The process is not very easy and requires some experience with electronics and soldering/desoldering, but here is the result
"You must have 1 posts before you can post URL's/Links."
(maybe in the next post then ....)
Well thank you for reading and for all the great info available here !
Luis
I'm a beginner chess player (from Italy), I discovered the game when I was a little boy but didn't have anybody to play with and lost interest. Six months ago started to look at the game again and I liked it so much I started play with my computer.
And then... I re-discovered the old chess computers you collect and talk about in this forum. I probably saw a couple in a fancy store in the 80s, and I was fascinated at the idea of a computer playing chess.
But nothing happened then.
Now I'm a hobbyist programmer (not chess related), I also somewhat play with electronics (just to learn about it) and computer chess is a nice merge of the two... and moreover it's chess ! All these together for some reason reignited my interested, and I bought some old chess computers on ebay in the last months.
Currently I have:
Fidelity Par Excellence
Bought it because I remember playing Sargon 2 on my VIC 20
I like how it tactically demolish me.
I like how the leds are very visible, round and flat instead of the classical dome shape. Awesome.
Mephisto Milano (with Nigel Short EPROM)
Bought because it's and Ed Schroder program.
I like how it plays positional chess and sometimes it plays like a human.
I like the fact it announces the opening used.
Also defends very well.
I dislike the extremely stupid idea of having to press "memory" before turning it off to keep the current position and settings in memory. It's beyond absurdity.
I dislike the fact you have dismantle the case to replace the 2032 battery.
I dislike the weak display, more on this at the end of this post.
Great, strong, interesting software in a cheap container with some horrible design decisions.
Saitek Centurion
Bought because it's a Frans Morsch program.
Probably it's the one I like most.
I like all the possible levels, I love the nice, big, well contrasted and readable display.
I like the chessboard surface, it's the best of all the chess computers I have.
I like the buttons, soft but not spongy and working well.
Yes, it's has a couple of bugs, but I just love it.
Saitek Eplorer Pro
Bought because it's a kind of "backup" for the Centurion, it was NEW and it was cheap.
Also nice display, and smaller batteries.
Saitek Sensor XL
Bought because it's a Craig Barnes program, it's not too strong, it's cheap and it has a great software.
I say great software beause it has normal levels, beginner levels, depth limited levels, levels in which it positions pieces so you can try to find tactical combinations, can play trying to achieve a closed position, an open position or trying to be very active, and more.
I think it's great for a beginner like me to experiment.
Negatives: small and not very visible leds, repetitive gameplay saved by all the possible styles available, squishy buttons.
SciSys Turbostar 432 with KSO module
Bought because it's a Julio Kaplan program, because it should play differently from the ones above, it was cheap and with the KSO.
I haven't really played with this one yet, so I cannot comment beyond this.
Now, a question:
I scanned the manuals of my Saitek Sensor XL and SciSys Turbostar 432 because the quality of what available on the awesome A. Zanchetta's site was pretty bad (especially for the Turbostar). I would like to send them to him but I didn't find a contact email on the site. Can someone here give me an hint ?
On a similar note... I'm about to buy a Mephisto Europa (not A, the silver one).
Can someone here share a copy of the english manual ? I downloaded the French one because my wife can help me there, but I would like to have the english one. Anybody can help ?
And now... about the Milano/Nigel Short display
I liked the machine but I hated the display. It was readable only when there is plenty of ambient light and I cannot read anything in the evening. I had to use a led torch to select the options. It was unbearable.
So, even if I prefer to keep them in the original state, in this case I replaced the display with another one with back-ligthing.
The process is not very easy and requires some experience with electronics and soldering/desoldering, but here is the result
"You must have 1 posts before you can post URL's/Links."
(maybe in the next post then ....)
Well thank you for reading and for all the great info available here !
Luis
Hello
Hi Luis,
I'm from Italy too, Rome namely, joined the forum recently too, and have a Milano board.
Congrats for your collection, I find not easy to find decent chess computer for sale in Italy. I still have my "legacy equipment", i.e. an Exclusive / London 68020 bought in the late 80's and a Travel Champion 2100 which plays similarly to your Centurion (but no Y8 bug). Some months ago I bought the Milano and also have got a Fidelity Excellence EP12 for a mere $10 on ebay US while I was in NY on last Christmas.
On the Milano I have a question for you: did you replace the backup battery by yourself or did you go through some kind of service lab ? I'd like to do that since the Milano always reverts to German, and maybe also install the Nigel Short eproms just to squeeze a few more drops out. I found a tutorial but I cannot think to even start the process, as I have no idea on how solder cables and stuff.
Also my Vancouver / London module would benefit from a new backup battery. I located the battery inside the display unit, but could not find a way to dislodge the thing from its clamp. I found the replacement battery assembly on topschach.de, but no instructions.
If you have any suggestion on the above, I would greatly appreciate.
Best,
Mauro
I'm from Italy too, Rome namely, joined the forum recently too, and have a Milano board.
Congrats for your collection, I find not easy to find decent chess computer for sale in Italy. I still have my "legacy equipment", i.e. an Exclusive / London 68020 bought in the late 80's and a Travel Champion 2100 which plays similarly to your Centurion (but no Y8 bug). Some months ago I bought the Milano and also have got a Fidelity Excellence EP12 for a mere $10 on ebay US while I was in NY on last Christmas.
On the Milano I have a question for you: did you replace the backup battery by yourself or did you go through some kind of service lab ? I'd like to do that since the Milano always reverts to German, and maybe also install the Nigel Short eproms just to squeeze a few more drops out. I found a tutorial but I cannot think to even start the process, as I have no idea on how solder cables and stuff.
Also my Vancouver / London module would benefit from a new backup battery. I located the battery inside the display unit, but could not find a way to dislodge the thing from its clamp. I found the replacement battery assembly on topschach.de, but no instructions.
If you have any suggestion on the above, I would greatly appreciate.
Best,
Mauro
Hi Mauro
about the 2032 in the Milano.
It's easy to replace it, the only problem is you have to open the computer.
You have to get a cutter or another thin blade, and remove 3 of the four rubber feet. Then remove the three screws under them.
Also you need to remove a screw form the battery compartment.
After that you can open the computer.
The battery is visible on the right side of the board, just use some non conductive object to make it slide and it will pop out.
Don't use metal pliers or you will short circuit + and - of the battery.
Just make it slide out.
Take note of the polarity before removing it.
You can't really see where the + is because you would need the main board out to see it well (see my picture above), just look the side of the battery and compare it with your new battery, you'll see there is a top and a bottom and they are different!
Replace the battery pushing the new one inside and reassemble the computer.
I cleaned up the rubber feet from the old glue and then put them in place using four drops of Vinavil (vinylic glue) at the 4 corners of every circle.
This way you can remove them many times no problem, just wash them and repeat next time.
Here you can see the procedure to open the computer translated into images -> https://sites.google.com/site/proyectos ... nigelshort
On that page (Hi Gerardo !) the procedure to change the ROM is also explained, no soldering required. Just some time and attention in removing / inserting the ROMs.
So for the battery: remove 3 feet, unscrew 4 screws, change battery, reassemble. And remember to push "memory" every time before turning it off (what were they thinking ?).
For your other computers, I suppose it's the same, the battery should slide out from its metal (or plastic) cage but I don't really know them.
about the 2032 in the Milano.
It's easy to replace it, the only problem is you have to open the computer.
You have to get a cutter or another thin blade, and remove 3 of the four rubber feet. Then remove the three screws under them.
Also you need to remove a screw form the battery compartment.
After that you can open the computer.
The battery is visible on the right side of the board, just use some non conductive object to make it slide and it will pop out.
Don't use metal pliers or you will short circuit + and - of the battery.
Just make it slide out.
Take note of the polarity before removing it.
You can't really see where the + is because you would need the main board out to see it well (see my picture above), just look the side of the battery and compare it with your new battery, you'll see there is a top and a bottom and they are different!
Replace the battery pushing the new one inside and reassemble the computer.
I cleaned up the rubber feet from the old glue and then put them in place using four drops of Vinavil (vinylic glue) at the 4 corners of every circle.
This way you can remove them many times no problem, just wash them and repeat next time.
Here you can see the procedure to open the computer translated into images -> https://sites.google.com/site/proyectos ... nigelshort
On that page (Hi Gerardo !) the procedure to change the ROM is also explained, no soldering required. Just some time and attention in removing / inserting the ROMs.
So for the battery: remove 3 feet, unscrew 4 screws, change battery, reassemble. And remember to push "memory" every time before turning it off (what were they thinking ?).
For your other computers, I suppose it's the same, the battery should slide out from its metal (or plastic) cage but I don't really know them.
About my statement "no soldering" for the ROM replacement:
actually he suggests to desolder two wires from the power supply module but I think you can leave them connected as long as you don't need to work on the board, you simply can't move the board too further away from the plastic chassis with the wires connected.
I believe you can pull it off just by removing some screws and detaching two flat cables (they go off/on by pulling/pushing).
actually he suggests to desolder two wires from the power supply module but I think you can leave them connected as long as you don't need to work on the board, you simply can't move the board too further away from the plastic chassis with the wires connected.
I believe you can pull it off just by removing some screws and detaching two flat cables (they go off/on by pulling/pushing).
- Fernando
- Admiral of the Fleet
- Posts: 3059
- Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:35 pm
- Location: Santiago de Chile
Re: New to the forum, and some other stuff :-)
luis wrote:Hi guys, I registered today at the forum after lurking on and off for some months.
I'm a beginner chess player (from Italy), I discovered the game when I was a little boy but didn't have anybody to play with and lost interest. Six months ago started to look at the game again and I liked it so much I started play with my computer.
And then... I re-discovered the old chess computers you collect and talk about in this forum. I probably saw a couple in a fancy store in the 80s, and I was fascinated at the idea of a computer playing chess.
But nothing happened then.
Now I'm a hobbyist programmer (not chess related), I also somewhat play with electronics (just to learn about it) and computer chess is a nice merge of the two... and moreover it's chess ! All these together for some reason reignited my interested, and I bought some old chess computers on ebay in the last months.
Currently I have:
Fidelity Par Excellence
Bought it because I remember playing Sargon 2 on my VIC 20
I like how it tactically demolish me.
I like how the leds are very visible, round and flat instead of the classical dome shape. Awesome.
Mephisto Milano (with Nigel Short EPROM)
Bought because it's and Ed Schroder program.
I like how it plays positional chess and sometimes it plays like a human.
I like the fact it announces the opening used.
Also defends very well.
I dislike the extremely stupid idea of having to press "memory" before turning it off to keep the current position and settings in memory. It's beyond absurdity.
I dislike the fact you have dismantle the case to replace the 2032 battery.
I dislike the weak display, more on this at the end of this post.
Great, strong, interesting software in a cheap container with some horrible design decisions.
Saitek Centurion
Bought because it's a Frans Morsch program.
Probably it's the one I like most.
I like all the possible levels, I love the nice, big, well contrasted and readable display.
I like the chessboard surface, it's the best of all the chess computers I have.
I like the buttons, soft but not spongy and working well.
Yes, it's has a couple of bugs, but I just love it.
Saitek Eplorer Pro
Bought because it's a kind of "backup" for the Centurion, it was NEW and it was cheap.
Also nice display, and smaller batteries.
Saitek Sensor XL
Bought because it's a Craig Barnes program, it's not too strong, it's cheap and it has a great software.
I say great software beause it has normal levels, beginner levels, depth limited levels, levels in which it positions pieces so you can try to find tactical combinations, can play trying to achieve a closed position, an open position or trying to be very active, and more.
I think it's great for a beginner like me to experiment.
Negatives: small and not very visible leds, repetitive gameplay saved by all the possible styles available, squishy buttons.
SciSys Turbostar 432 with KSO module
Bought because it's a Julio Kaplan program, because it should play differently from the ones above, it was cheap and with the KSO.
I haven't really played with this one yet, so I cannot comment beyond this.
Now, a question:
I scanned the manuals of my Saitek Sensor XL and SciSys Turbostar 432 because the quality of what available on the awesome A. Zanchetta's site was pretty bad (especially for the Turbostar). I would like to send them to him but I didn't find a contact email on the site. Can someone here give me an hint ?
On a similar note... I'm about to buy a Mephisto Europa (not A, the silver one).
Can someone here share a copy of the english manual ? I downloaded the French one because my wife can help me there, but I would like to have the english one. Anybody can help ?
And now... about the Milano/Nigel Short display
I liked the machine but I hated the display. It was readable only when there is plenty of ambient light and I cannot read anything in the evening. I had to use a led torch to select the options. It was unbearable.
So, even if I prefer to keep them in the original state, in this case I replaced the display with another one with back-ligthing.
The process is not very easy and requires some experience with electronics and soldering/desoldering, but here is the result
"You must have 1 posts before you can post URL's/Links."
(maybe in the next post then ....)
Well thank you for reading and for all the great info available here !
well, Luis, benvenutto to the place, but...it looks like nobody informed you there is a ticket to pay to become a member.
Just send me 4000 Euros and all is done.
You will receive A certifícate of pertenece to this place and you will enter automatically to a "tombola" where you can win an autographed book written by me and at just 1000 euros the piece.
You see, lot of perquisites here regards
Fern
Luis
Festina Lente
Thanks
Luis,
actually that tutorial is a bit scary.
I understood the backup battery can be replaced without taking the main board aside, as it protrudes from the inner edge of the board.
Should I proceed with the eprom replacement, I have two further questions:
1) do you think I can do that by only removing the main board, i.e. leaving in place the power supply cables and the two thin edge boards connected with the ribbon cables ? Like taking out the screws on the main rectangular board and flipping it upside down ?
2) when taking out the existing Milano eprom, do I need a special tool to snap it out of the socket ? I assume it is not soldered in place and that the new eprom just snaps in by simple pressure. In that case, I just use two fingers or a "technique" is needed ? Worried about the risk of bending pins ...
Otherwise, I can just wait for a decently priced Nigel Short to pop out on the bay.
Nice to see that in the Milano the backup battery has a clip-on attachement, even if it is a major design shame on Mephisto part that they did not make it replaceable without taking the board apart. In the more "advanced" Vancouver module, the backup battery is easily accessed but - who knows why - it is glued or soldered in its clamp.
Thanks again and best regards,
Mauro
actually that tutorial is a bit scary.
I understood the backup battery can be replaced without taking the main board aside, as it protrudes from the inner edge of the board.
Should I proceed with the eprom replacement, I have two further questions:
1) do you think I can do that by only removing the main board, i.e. leaving in place the power supply cables and the two thin edge boards connected with the ribbon cables ? Like taking out the screws on the main rectangular board and flipping it upside down ?
2) when taking out the existing Milano eprom, do I need a special tool to snap it out of the socket ? I assume it is not soldered in place and that the new eprom just snaps in by simple pressure. In that case, I just use two fingers or a "technique" is needed ? Worried about the risk of bending pins ...
Otherwise, I can just wait for a decently priced Nigel Short to pop out on the bay.
Nice to see that in the Milano the backup battery has a clip-on attachement, even if it is a major design shame on Mephisto part that they did not make it replaceable without taking the board apart. In the more "advanced" Vancouver module, the backup battery is easily accessed but - who knows why - it is glued or soldered in its clamp.
Thanks again and best regards,
Mauro
Re: New to the forum, and some other stuff :-)
The conditions sounds fair and the prize is titillating, I look forward to complete my membership.Fernando wrote: well, Luis, benvenutto to the place, but...it looks like nobody informed you there is a ticket to pay to become a member.
PS: if you are serious, please delete my account immediately !
Re: Thanks
Probably it's not impossible but I think it would be harder to do because inserting a ROM requires some force, and you better have the board well resting on a solid and flat surface, not easy with all that connections impending movement.mauben wrote: 1) do you think I can do that by only removing the main board, i.e. leaving in place the power supply cables and the two thin edge boards connected with the ribbon cables ? Like taking out the screws on the main rectangular board and flipping it upside down ?
I think you can avoid desoldering the red and black wires, but you should unscrew the board, the two daughter boards with the leds and pull out the two flat cables.
There are tools made for this, called "extractors", but you may not need them. You may use a flat and large screwdriver to pull up the left side a little, then the right side a little, then repeat and when it become loose you pull out with your hands.mauben wrote: 2) when taking out the existing Milano eprom, do I need a special tool to snap it out of the socket ? I assume it is not soldered in place and that the new eprom just snaps in by simple pressure. In that case, I just use two fingers or a "technique" is needed ? Worried about the risk of bending pins ...
Doing it on both sides is the trick to not bend the pins.
But depends on how hard the I.C. socket is keeping the ROM inside, sometime it's easy and sometimes it's not.
If you use a screwdriver it must be thin and large enough to not chip the ROM when pushing it up.
It can be done, anyway.
- microhenri
- Member
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:58 am
- Location: Netherlands
Re: New to the forum, and some other stuff :-)
Welcome to the forum.luis wrote: Now, a question:
I scanned the manuals of my Saitek Sensor XL and SciSys Turbostar 432 because the quality of what available on the awesome A. Zanchetta's site was pretty bad (especially for the Turbostar). I would like to send them to him but I didn't find a contact email on the site. Can someone here give me an hint ?
Luis
About the manual: You are a member now so you can send a PM to Alain:
See his toppic:
http://hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php? ... 9edf1fd614
Regards Henri
Thanks again
I'll give a try, hoping not to fry the thing.
M
M
- Fernando
- Admiral of the Fleet
- Posts: 3059
- Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:35 pm
- Location: Santiago de Chile
Re: New to the forum, and some other stuff :-)
Its is called sense of humor. It abounds here. No fee asked.luis wrote:The conditions sounds fair and the prize is titillating, I look forward to complete my membership.Fernando wrote: well, Luis, benvenutto to the place, but...it looks like nobody informed you there is a ticket to pay to become a member.
PS: if you are serious, please delete my account immediately !
Festina Lente
Re: New to the forum, and some other stuff :-)
Thank you, I'll try thatmicrohenri wrote: Welcome to the forum.
About the manual: You are a member now so you can send a PM to Alain:
Looks like I'm not the only one disliking those faint displays
Mephisto Berlin 68000 with backlighted display on ebay
http://www.ebay.it/itm/232200219820?_tr ... EBIDX%3AIT
Mephisto Berlin 68000 with backlighted display on ebay
http://www.ebay.it/itm/232200219820?_tr ... EBIDX%3AIT
- chesspcmac
- Member
- Posts: 250
- Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:58 am
- Location: Richmond, Virginia