Chess challenger overheated!

This forum is for general discussions and questions, including Collectors Corner and anything to do with Computer chess.

Moderators: Harvey Williamson, Steve B, Watchman

Forum rules
This textbox is used to restore diagrams posted with the fen tag before the upgrade.
User avatar
microhenri
Member
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:58 am
Location: Netherlands

Chess challenger overheated!

Post by microhenri »

After playing chess on my CC10c for over 5 hours the chess challenger did reset. The underside of the wooden housing felt really hot.
Is this a common problem of all early wooden chess challengers?
User avatar
Steve B
Site Admin
Posts: 10140
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:02 am
Location: New York City USofA
Contact:

Re: Chess challenger overheated!

Post by Steve B »

microhenri wrote:After playing chess on my CC10c for over 5 hours the chess challenger did reset. The underside of the wooden housing felt really hot.
Is this a common problem of all early wooden chess challengers?
Welcome to the Forum
although some of the Chess Challengers can get very warm went left on for a long time,i have never had one "reset "on me nor have i heard of this as a problem
Warm But Steady Regards
Steve
User avatar
microhenri
Member
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:58 am
Location: Netherlands

Post by microhenri »

Thanks for your reply and for the warm welcome (I do like the forum..)

The wooden housing is completely closed without venting holes to release the heat. I was wondering when the heat is piling up inside if this could course real damage in the future?
Here in central Europe in the year 1985 the main voltage is increased slowly from 220V to 230V. That is after the design of this chess computer. This extra heat must also be dissipated.

If my cc10c is the only chess challenger with this problem, then I am a little bit worried. Is it now degrading to a level that it will fail more often? Can I do something about it?
Any suggestions is welcome?

Kind regards microHenri
User avatar
Fernando
Admiral of the Fleet
Posts: 3059
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:35 pm
Location: Santiago de Chile

Post by Fernando »

microhenri wrote:Thanks for your reply and for the warm welcome (I do like the forum..)

The wooden housing is completely closed without venting holes to release the heat. I was wondering when the heat is piling up inside if this could course real damage in the future?
Here in central Europe in the year 1985 the main voltage is increased slowly from 220V to 230V. That is after the design of this chess computer. This extra heat must also be dissipated.

If my cc10c is the only chess challenger with this problem, then I am a little bit worried. Is it now degrading to a level that it will fail more often? Can I do something about it?
Any suggestions is welcome?

Kind regards microHenri
Throw the machine to a tub full of cooled water.¨Probably after that the contrivance will not work anymore, BUT it will not be too much hot
Festina Lente
User avatar
Fernando
Admiral of the Fleet
Posts: 3059
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:35 pm
Location: Santiago de Chile

Post by Fernando »

microhenri wrote:Thanks for your reply and for the warm welcome (I do like the forum..)

The wooden housing is completely closed without venting holes to release the heat. I was wondering when the heat is piling up inside if this could course real damage in the future?
Here in central Europe in the year 1985 the main voltage is increased slowly from 220V to 230V. That is after the design of this chess computer. This extra heat must also be dissipated.

If my cc10c is the only chess challenger with this problem, then I am a little bit worried. Is it now degrading to a level that it will fail more often? Can I do something about it?
Any suggestions is welcome?

Kind regards microHenri
Festina Lente
User avatar
Fernando
Admiral of the Fleet
Posts: 3059
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:35 pm
Location: Santiago de Chile

Post by Fernando »

Fernando wrote:
microhenri wrote:Thanks for your reply and for the warm welcome (I do like the forum..)

The wooden housing is completely closed without venting holes to release the heat. I was wondering when the heat is piling up inside if this could course real damage in the future?
Here in central Europe in the year 1985 the main voltage is increased slowly from 220V to 230V. That is after the design of this chess computer. This extra heat must also be dissipated.

If my cc10c is the only chess challenger with this problem, then I am a little bit worried. Is it now degrading to a level that it will fail more often? Can I do something about it?
Any suggestions is welcome?

Kind regards microHenri
Throw the machine to a tub full of very cold water. It will not work anymore, but not more heat problems.
Festina Lente
User avatar
microhenri
Member
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:58 am
Location: Netherlands

Post by microhenri »

Ha, Yeh, I think I did ask for this :wink:
A little correction to the question: Any suggestion ‘that can really help’ is welcome.
User avatar
Fernando
Admiral of the Fleet
Posts: 3059
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:35 pm
Location: Santiago de Chile

Post by Fernando »

microhenri wrote:Ha, Yeh, I think I did ask for this :wink:
A little correction to the question: Any suggestion ‘that can really help’ is welcome.
what about to un screew the back cover?
Festina Lente
User avatar
microhenri
Member
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:58 am
Location: Netherlands

Post by microhenri »

Fernando wrote:
what about to un screew the back cover?
Yes that is a good thing. Let the cool air come in via the bottom.

But the underside is fixed with nails. How do I get the bottom lid off without damaging the wooden frame? The computer is almost 40 years old and never been opened.

p.s. I am also curious about the type of processor used in this model. Is it a Z80 or an 8080. When I open the case I can also look at the electronic circuit.

I still doubt if I should open it or not because it is not really defect (yet).
User avatar
Fernando
Admiral of the Fleet
Posts: 3059
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:35 pm
Location: Santiago de Chile

Post by Fernando »

microhenri wrote:
Fernando wrote:
what about to un screew the back cover?
Yes that is a good thing. Let the cool air come in via the bottom.

But the underside is fixed with nails. How do I get the bottom lid off without damaging the wooden frame? The computer is almost 40 years old and never been opened.

p.s. I am also curious about the type of processor used in this model. Is it a Z80 or an 8080. When I open the case I can also look at the electronic circuit.

I still doubt if I should open it or not because it is not really defect (yet).
another option perhaps is to drill some holes, carefully, on that bottom cover.
Festina Lente
User avatar
Fernando
Admiral of the Fleet
Posts: 3059
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:35 pm
Location: Santiago de Chile

Post by Fernando »

Fernando wrote:
microhenri wrote:
Fernando wrote:
what about to un screew the back cover?
Yes that is a good thing. Let the cool air come in via the bottom.

But the underside is fixed with nails. How do I get the bottom lid off without damaging the wooden frame? The computer is almost 40 years old and never been opened.

p.s. I am also curious about the type of processor used in this model. Is it a Z80 or an 8080. When I open the case I can also look at the electronic circuit.

I still doubt if I should open it or not because it is not really defect (yet).
another option perhaps is to drill some holes, carefully, on that bottom cover.

Even more: there are contrivances with one or two fans to put over them a laptop. You could use one of those...
Festina Lente
Larry
Senior Member
Posts: 2269
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:42 am
Location: Gosford, NSW Australia

Re: Chess challenger overheated!

Post by Larry »

microhenri wrote:After playing chess on my CC10c for over 5 hours the chess challenger did reset. The underside of the wooden housing felt really hot.
Is this a common problem of all early wooden chess challengers?
I do remember those early processors produced a lot of heat. They
doubled as a room heater. This said, I doubt the game steadily got
hotter over a five hour period. It would have reached maximum heat
in maybe a half hour, you just did'nt notice until the reset. I think the
CC10 is one of those bullet proof machines, like the earlier CC1. You
have to damage the back to get it off. Not much can be done except play
each game in a half hour, then shut the game down for a while.
L
Mike Watters
Member
Posts: 429
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:31 pm
Location: Milton Keynes
Contact:

Post by Mike Watters »

I would stick thick pads on the base to lift it up a bit and get the air circulating beneath, and if that wasn't enough drill holes as Fernando suggested.

As Larry said taking the back off a CC1/CC3/CC10C can be tricky and a quick way to ruin them. It also doesn't give access to the components.

The processor will almost certainly be a 8080 if past investigations are anything to go by.
User avatar
microhenri
Member
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:58 am
Location: Netherlands

Post by microhenri »

Mike Watters wrote:I would stick thick pads on the base to lift it up a bit and get the air circulating beneath,
Larry wrote: I do remember those early processors produced a lot of heat.
Mick and Larry, this makes sense
I did look at the pats, or should I say to the place where they should have been. They were missing. This means that the bottom of the cc10c had full contact with the table top. No air flow was possible underneath the machine. Now I do remember that even the table top felt hot on the place where the chess challenger was standing that evening. The heat was not transported away from the machine by the airflow, but could only conduct to the table top heating it up slowly.
I will add higher pads.

About the power consumption. I did measure the current consumption of two Chess Challengers:
CC10c: 850mA at 10.5Vac
CC7: 240mA
So yes, the older models do consume more power (and heat).

I like to keep my computers as original as possible so although I do not doubt that it will keep the inside cooler I will not drill holes in it.

What about the 10.5Vac. The microprocessor and the rest of the circuits are running on 5 Volt. The power regulator has to regulate the input voltage down. The lower the voltage over the regulator, the lower the heat dissipated in this regulator. How low can I go with the input voltage?
Kind regards, Henri
Larry
Senior Member
Posts: 2269
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:42 am
Location: Gosford, NSW Australia

Post by Larry »

microhenri wrote: How low can I go with the input voltage?
Kind regards, Henri
The Fidelity SC9, with the 6502 processor, which also runs on 5 volts,
works fine on my regulated 6 volt adaptor, even though the recommended
input is 9 volts. I'm betting the 8080 processor will too.
But if it's the processor
making the heat, not the voltage regulator, then the problem won't
go away.
L
Post Reply