Some Idle thoughts on Chess Computers and Humans.

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paulhuk
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Some Idle thoughts on Chess Computers and Humans.

Post by paulhuk »

I thought I'd put down some idle thoughts about the way some of us may relate to our chess machines. I think there may be differences between the pure collectors and the chess players. For the most part the collectors seem to store away their prized possessions hauling them out on special occasions to pit one machine against another for an interesting play off and comparison.

Chess players I guess (myself included in a very modest way) tend to invest in a dedicated machine and/or a number of PC based programs so as to play chess when the fancy takes hold, to augment chess played against other human opponents and for post game analysis. The chess player is more likely to tolerate compromise in their use of different programs. In my case I play against my Mephisto Lyon easy level 6. My wife bought me the 'enhanced rosewood citrine peices' for the Mephisto Exclusive board from Chessbaron here in the Uk. Highly recommended by the way. I also use my iphone with the Mephisto Exclusive board to play against Hiarcs, Shredder, Chess Genius and Stockfish. In addition I have the Picochess system which uses the DGT tournament sized board with a faster Stockfish. This medley of computer opponents provides a terrific variety of styles which is very challenging and helpful to a weak club player like myself.

Would I like to have multiple engines installed on my dedicated auto-response board? Absolutely. Using an iphone to transcribe the moves is far from ideal. But you do get used to it. However, I am not aware of many chess players sharing their computer chess experiences on the Hiarcs forum or any other forum for that matter? I'm not sure why this is the case. Once Selective Search dies, I fear there will be precious little left to discuss regarding humans/hobbyists vs computers.

'I am a chess computer and I will destroy you' Regards,

Paul H
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IA
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Post by IA »

Hello Paulhuk, Interesting question what you say, in my personal case Palm Hiarcs 12.1 - 13.1 is clearly the best program for playing and coaching I've found and also has a playing style very human and since I've used six years ago no longer game with Dedicated Micros, after a certain distance this Pocket Shredder is also an excellent alternative to a style of play also very humanized, the following economic alternative is the Java version of Shredder +-2100 Elo (mobile Nokia ...) it is very entertaining and closely resembles the playing style of Dedicated Micros also a very entertaining style of play and humanized.

The three programs have multiple levels to train and improve and this is what makes them so educational and entertainment.

No other program for iOS, Android I like, I opted for Palm Hiarcs clearly as the number one program for training and having a more entertaining style of play and humanized and I play every day.

Regards... :D
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Steve B
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Re: Some Idle thoughts on Chess Computers and Humans.

Post by Steve B »

paulhuk wrote:I thought I'd put down some idle thoughts about the way some of us may relate to our chess machines. I think there may be differences between the pure collectors and the chess players. For the most part the collectors seem to store away their prized possessions hauling them out on special occasions to pit one machine against another for an interesting play off and comparison.
i consider myself a Collector and Chess player
i dont think a week goes by where i am not using one of my computers..
Either to play against myself or against each other
this..for 30+ years now...each week
i know many collectors and i think this is true of most of them
just because collectors dont make posts 5 times a day for your reading enjoyment does not mean they dont use their computers each and every week..some i imagine use them almost each and every day

there is a very small group of collectors who never use their computers..
afraid of scratching them or ruining the Mint condition
they are only interested in re-sale value years from now
this is ridiculous IMHO but again this is a very small group and not indicative of collectors in general

Personally i have been playing chess since i am 16
i competed OTB in rated games and in Rated Correspondence play
all before the first chess computers or engines appeared
Sorry Paul but all in all ..i think your image of what a collector is..is just not correct

Not Even Close Regards
Steve
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Post by paulhuk »

Hi Steve,

It was certainly not my intention to provoke enthusiasts like your good self with simplistic generalizations and I do apologize if my thoughts inadvertently came across as such. In my defense I did try to qualify the collectors category as 'pure' and I am sure you are correct when you point out that the majority of collectors are also keen chess players. On the other hand I must strongly object to your suggestion that my appetite for entertainment would be satisfied by a mere 5 posts a day. I would expect a minimum of at least 8-10 posts daily......and all before breakfast :shock:

I realize there is particular enthusiasm on this forum for computer vs computer matches. I am left wondering why so little time is devoted to the personal experience of playing with different computer programs. Hmmm. In this regard it is good to hear from people like IA who, like myself are interested in programs that have an engaging human like style rather than pursuing the next impossibly strong chess program. An interesting question is what are the ingredients that give a chess program a more human style of play given that you can never replace the unique experience of real human encounter across the chess board.

More questions than answers regards,

Paul H
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Post by Steve B »

paulhuk wrote: On the other hand I must strongly object to your suggestion that my appetite for entertainment would be satisfied by a mere 5 posts a day. I would expect a minimum of at least 8-10 posts daily......and all before breakfast :shock:
:P
lol
paulhuk wrote:

I am left wondering why so little time is devoted to the personal experience of playing with different computer programs.More questions than answers regards,

Paul H
Coincidentally ...
i was just about to post a brilliant game of mine against this powerhouse dedicated computer
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10261668@N05/858185245/

Seriously though..

i do notice on other forums as well that folks rarely post games where they themselves have played a PC engine
or even a dedicated computer
one reason i guess is that if one shows a sparkling win against a 2800 engine the suspicion would be raised that they used an engine for their moves
if you notice..even in Selective Search Mag..Rarely do you see a game where a reader(human) has played a game Vs a PC or dedicated computer engine

at least when we see comp vs comp games(PC or Dedicated)
we can go over the game with our own engine or dedicated computer and see if we can replicate the moves
in other words its verifiable to some extent
Human Vs Computer games cant be verified so it leads to a bit of suspicion
i guess there would be no suspicion if someone posted games they have lost to an engine .but who has the appetite to do that?
actually a member here..not long ago.. posted a 10 game match where he lost all 10 games to a dedicated computer
i admired his courage. honesty and tenacity..but i must admit it was painful to replay the games

anyway ..i think that might be one of several reasons

Pontificating Regards
Steve
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Post by Reinfeld »

For the most part the collectors seem to store away their prized possessions hauling them out on special occasions to pit one machine against another for an interesting play off and comparison.


We store the prized possessions because there's no other place to put them. It's hard to find the table space for 20-odd tabletops, let alone two or three. I have them stowed in bookshelves, on coffee tables, everywhere.
I am left wondering why so little time is devoted to the personal experience of playing with different computer programs.
Partly because there are other places within these forums to do that, and partly because we usually lose to these suckers, and talking about it is traumatic. Also because (as Steve suggested), if you put your own paltry wins up there, some wise-ass might find it thrilling to dissect your errors or question your veracity.

Chess hooked me in college. Two friends played. They were better than me in an 800-to-600 sort of way, which usually reduced me to table-flipping rage. Later, I discovered chess books, and then electronic boards, a godsend in pre-internet days if you lived in places where players and time were scarce. I now play a little correspondence online with a friend, but mostly, I fiddle around with the tabletops, trying to get better. I've been trying to get better all my life, and I have notebooks and journals filled with old games. I play two or three games a day at least (blitz, obviously).

For a long time, I had only one tabletop: Excellence, destroyer of worlds. I played against it every which way, recorded my games in crude fashion, tried to find the limits of its opening book, and gradually got good enough to play it on relatively even terms. Years later, I realized that other tabletops existed, and some were stronger - substantially stronger. This was a revelation.

I had long since realized that software represented the gold standard. I have 8 programs on my phone, and six or seven more on a pair of computers. That said, I've never really liked playing on a screen. I like the physicality of actually playing a game, moving pieces, etc. I also find it sort of dreary to turn down a program like Fritz or Stockfish to my lousy level. Chessmaster's personalities and increasing degrees of difficulty are somewhat entertaining; but that's as far as it gets, and they're certainly not "human" in their blundering. Most of the time, when you tune software down, it's like an odds game. The software flings a piece away then goes back to playing like a god.

While I do like pitting tabletops against each other and measuring playing styles, it's not a collecting thing. It's a fascination with trying to understand why they lose, what the mistakes are. I find that doing so helps me understand the game far better than in former years. It's obvious to me now, for instance, that most tabletops simply suck at endgames until you get into the high-end models.

That gives me hope. Tabletops, even the good ones, provide the lure of beatability. Software doesn't, unless you cripple it, and that feels cheap. I can't cope with Fritz or Hiarcs. But I can beat Excellence these days, even if I jack up the time controls. So I move up the chain a little.

- R.
"You have, let us say, a promising politician, a rising artist that you wish to destroy. Dagger or bomb are archaic and unreliable - but teach him, inoculate him with chess."
– H.G. Wells
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Post by IvenGO »

As for me Im still more or less active player taking a part in several FIDE-rated tourneys per year; from childhood dedicated machines play an important role in my chess life... Some last years I also played many games against different PocketPC software but finally found, that my trainings go better when I have dedicated computers as the main training opponents, because to make a progress you need stronger competitors but not much (+100-200 ELO points is enough); and you must learn how to beat equal rated opponents with a good score too! And of course its a matter of mind because when you play against high perfomance hardware you always know that it see all your tactical tricks / ideas and you have no chance to beat it this way - only by boring positional playing, but such kind of will not good vs. most of human players.
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Post by xchessg »

Here are my thoughts:

For me, tabletops bring me youth sentiment, above all: I started of with an Sensor Chess in the early '80 and a Mephisto Modular MMI. I spend a lot of time playing with these machines, and dreaming of even stronger (more expensive) tabletops while the machines I owned were computing. However, I was rather cronically short of money for this at that time. This has changed for the better, but I'm finding myself rather chronically short of leisure time these days, to be able to play the machines I dreamed about then and posess nowadays as much as I would like to. I do take them out say 1-2 evenings per week. I tend to prefer Tournement tempi, pitting 4-6 machines against each other while playing a game myself against an odd one. Thinking about my move and scoring the games in progress can be quite an engrossing thing. I tend to put some games on the different fora, but very rarely my own games. It's just not of interest to others I believe.

This interest in computer chess was always limited to dedicated computers, I never took to PC programs if it wasn't for analysis. Alongside this I always was an competitive player, peeking at 2205 Elo the day before I met my wife... :idea:
Now I'm at 2090 Fide and playing very infrequently against human opposition:I'm getting older, tend to lose focus after about 3 hours of play because I'm getting tired. Also, one gets paranoid nowadays about opponents who spend much time away from the board: Cheating is becoming an huge problem I feel.

Commenting on the Style of play of dedicated units is very much a personal thing, I think. I'll start of by stating that no computer program plays like the humans you'll meet at the circles. If I was asked to pinpoint a program that approaches the "human circle player" at best, I think I would suggest the "newer" programs by Morsch (Magellan) and even more by Schröder (RISC I and II on Mephisto) and De Koning (Montreux, Tasc). The older programs by the Spracklens and Lang are really different or clearly not so human. One tends to read a lot about the positional style of Lang's Genius (or Vancouver, London, etc. differences are very small). I always felt I owned another Genius (Mephisto) then the people who state this. What this program does basically is just try to exchange down to an ending situation as quickly as possible to be able to use the calculating power it has as efficiently as possible. An very dreary opponent, and a rather easy pushover for me in more complex middle game situations, because it tends to nicely sit and wait for the breach to be delivered on it's kingside. The really genial thing about the Genius is it's user comfort, which is the standard I feel for the dedicated chess computers, not surpassed to this day.

One doesn't get better with just playing games of chess, only study allows real progress, in combination with related play. I always used to score my games with chess computers to be able to pinpoint the mistakes and started subsequent games from that point after having consulted some book(s). That's the method I used to progress to about 2000 Elo during my chess-formative years as an adolescent.

Which is why a beautiful dedicated unit brings me back in my mind to the bygone time of limitless energy and leisure time.

regards

Xavier
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Post by IA »

My first was dedicated micro Saitek Kasparov Partner how good moments passed me for years and still have it when I bought the overcame Novag Emerald 20 Mhz playing very well and has a style of play very humanized and this machine also keep it, then buy other chess machines that eventually finished selling, of all the models I've had the Novag Risc 32K processor are best gameplay have, I'll make a summary.

The machines Saitek, Mephisto of 32K of the style GK-2100, Admiral, Expert,Cougard .... They are very good for training because of the many levels of play (Elo increase) they have, are ideal for players of all levels to +2000 Elo, the problem is that his style of play is just speculative and tend to tables, but otherwise are good machines.

The Saitek, Mephisto of 16K of the style GK2000, Miami ... are very good for occasional strong club players 1900 Elo, if you leave them much time thinking moves are impressive, they are ideal for club players caught expertise at the tactical level, but have game levels less than 32K as Mephisto Admiral ....

The Novag 32K are the best to play, has a style of play very aggressive and speculative, is very fun to play against them and machines as Novag Turquoise, Emerald Classic Plus, Obsidian .... They have an exciting style of play, are able to sacrifice a piece in an attack, is the closest thing you can find a player of Club aggressive.

These machines of 16K and 32K has its Achilles heel in the late game but if you play long games of tournament two hours are able to find very good plays.

For a player of Club a machine as Mephisto Master, or the machines of Richard Lang and The Koning can be a bore, but a strong player of 2200 Elo turner may like much these machines, I personally think that the best machines for strong chess players are Richard Lang for his balanced style of play, it's as if you were faced with a 2200 Elo Karpov, however a strong player the Novag 32K style of play like Michael Tal 2000 Elo, the machines of 32k Mephisto is as if you faced a 2000 Elo Kramnik, Fidelity machines Dan & Kate noted for their strong positional style of play and their style of play is as if you faced a Elo +2100 Petrosian, all I say is very succinct.
paulhuk wrote:In this regard it is good to hear from people like IA who, like myself are interested in programs that have an engaging human like style rather than pursuing the next impossibly strong chess program. An interesting question is what are the ingredients that give a chess program a more human style of play given that you can never replace the unique experience of real human encounter across the chess board.
Playstyle humanized machines means that speculative behavior and show that in certain circumstances despise the material for some gain in an attack, this will have Novag 32K machines and PC programs like Deep Junior, Rebel, Hiarcs, ChessTiger, machines with this style of game too often take unexpected and baffling decisions for humans by not showing a game as mathematical or materialistic.


Anyway the important thing is to play with a machine that fits well to your playing style, now the PDA programs and Smarphone replace the Dedicated Micros but always a pleasure to take on these little monsters chess as a Novag Turquoise teeth bared ready to go with all the heavy artillery to his adversary, is the most fun and emocinante, ultimately out there to have fun, not...


Regards... :roll:
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Post by spacious_mind »

Steve hit the nail on the head. People rarely post their own games against chess computers because the games are not verifiable. Therefore if you posted enough of them you would end up eventually having to defend yourself from Posters that start questioning wether you actually played them or conveniently hit the "takeback" on occasion to correct your mistakes.

That sounds to me like a lot of extra unneccessary hassle which most people would avoid.

The assumption that there are people that buy chess computers for collection purposes only, sounds silly to me and therefore unlikely. If you are not a chess player, why would you collect something that you don't know anything about. I think it is more likely that chess computer collectors are people who are competitive by nature. They have played one computer are getting bored and want the enjoyment of playing another computer. The next thing you know you have several computers and you start comparing them and playing them against each other and another hobby world opens up to you.

When I was about 13, I had two chess books, computers did not exist back then. I memorized these books page by page and I used what I learned in these books to play, represening my High School against other High Schools in the Regional High School league on board 1 as a 1st year High Schooler and I played for the local Chess Club representing them as well in the Regional League. Btw. the two books were Botvinniks 100 Best Games and Bobby Fisher's 60 Memorable games. That's all I could afford as a 13 year old. I had bought these books by saving up money from odd jobs here and there that I used to do on the weekends.

These two books were enough for me to play competitive chess because they provided me an understanding of the basics and the rest I learned from winning and losing at chess clubs.

Anyway I loved chess back then, but I also loved other sports like soccer even more therefore as I grew older other sports overtook my enjoyment for chess especially since these sports also impressed the girls more :)

So then for 30 Years I hardly played chess because of many other interests including marriage and 2 kids.

Ok to the point of my post, there may be a multitude of reasons why people get hooked on chess computers and each one is different and personal.

Mine is, I quit playing soccer at the age 43, my body could no longer handle the stress and I found myself with time on my hands again. The thought of becoming a zombie and spending the rest of my life on a sofa watching TV was not an option. So playing chess became something that I startet to do more and more again. But I quickly found that sitting in front of a computer playing online chess was also very boring and not very relaxing after a while. The bad sportsmen who log off when they are losing. People who harrass by wanting to play you over and over again when you log on etc. All these kind of things are off putting to me with regards to playing chess online and therefore I don't play it.

So I then started buying chess computers again (I had a couple in 1979/80 but found them too weak for long term enjoyment). First one, playing it a while getting bored again once you master it's style, then another, and another.. and then you realize that you have quite a few and you start to play mini tournaments against them all. Then your interest grows, you start to analyze not only their styles but who prgrammed them, what makes them tick etc and you slowly also besides playing them become a collector. Then you also realize that you have developed a new circle of friends (other collectors).

I think for every game that I have played and posted between two dedicated computers, I have played more against them myself. But these for the resons that Steve alluded to, do not get posted!

So Paul's categorization of collectors is to me just way off the mark since I believe that each collector's first interest was chess and not chess computers.

I would love to hear how others got started with the dedicated chess bug!

Best regards

Nick
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Post by ricard60 »

I learn to play chess at the age of 10 seven years later came up the first dedicated chess machine CC1 by that time did not have the money to buy one so i put in my dreams that some day i will have some didcated chess machines that i can play against it and see how strong they are and also what can i learn from them. So my first machine was the mimi sensory chess challenger soon i start to beat it so i bought the opening module for it, it did play a little stronger but i could still win. In 1988 i bought the fidelity designer 2100, in that time i had and elo of 1900 on fast games and about 1850 on slower times control, for me it was very exciting playing against it since the games were very close. Then after i got my degree and at that moment i start raising a family and working for companies i quit playing chess and stop my collection in that 2 machines.

Then after almost 20 years and that the family i helped to grew up is gone, that dream came back and the first machine i bought to pleased that dream was citrine. I played a 6 game match against citrine at fast time controls and it crushed me 6-0. Then i realised my elo had dropped a lot, so to test citrine elo strenght i start a 10 game match against the designer 2100. Citrine won 7-3. So it was clear that citrine was a tough opponent for me and also my elo had dropped. Then i add to my collection other machines, played against all of them and the only one i could beat is the fidelity Champion so my elo is still low. Every moment i have a free time part of it i spend it with these dedicated chess machines and to read and write in forums like this one.

Dedicated chess machines for ever regards
Ricardo
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Post by Steve B »

spacious_mind wrote:
I would love to hear how others got started with the dedicated chess bug!
Well i have told my story so many times already that we have lost several old time members here after they have hung themselves out of boredom
not letting that stop me i will tell it again...


It was in 1977 when ..during Xmas time i noticed in a store front window on Fifth Ave..Manhattan..NYC ..a machine with a chess board on it
i asked the salesman what this was and he told me it was a machine that could play a game of chess with me ..electronically
i could not believe my ears or eyes
i bought it on the spot
Today..we think nothing of this..but back then..
the idea that i could play chess..at home...against an opponent at any time of day or night..was nothing less then remarkable
of course that machine was the Fidelity Chess Challenger
that was 35 years ago...

Today ..sadly.. i am still waiting for it to make its 5th move

:P

Still Crazy After All These Years Regards
Steve
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Post by SirDave »

I played chess starting around 11 years old and became a reasonably good- but not great- player. Increasingly, priorities such as education, vocation and family took over.

Then, in the late 70's, my chess board collecting story started almost exactly like Steve's. I love gadgets and the premise of a gadget that could play chess was amazing to me. I know the first unit was a Fidelity Chess Challenger, but I wish I knew which one. On the one hand, my memory is of having bought it soon after it came out which, ordinarily, would mean the CC1 or CC3.

On the other hand, I think I would have noticed the major incorrect markings on the CC1 and I don't remember that as being on my CC so it probably wasn't the CC1. Also, I lived in Canada and it may have been that what I thought was the 'first' CC, actually wasn't since we sometimes got things later than the US back then- so it might have even been the CC7. Anyway, the surface started peeling off so it is long since gone.

But that's where any similarity to Steve's story ends. I didn't buy another board until my interest in chess revived in 2008-9 when I started getting chess apps for my iTouch. Then the gadgeteer part of me took over and I started accumulating chess portables. I far prefer playing chess on dedicated units than on iTouch/iPhone/iPad apps.

Luckily, I've managed to accumulated most of the top portables (eg. Novag Jades & Amber) and almost all of the chess laptops I want (eg. Fidelity Designer 2265, Saitek Barracuda and the Novag Zircon II). Now I'm able to play chess against dedicateds under all circumstances and I continue to work on my game. I know I can get to a good reliable mid-club level, but I have doubts of ever reliably winning against electronic opponents playing at >2000 Elo. :)

I've made a few collecting mistakes in my early purchases (insofar as I won't likely ever play them) mostly in the bigger RS board category and I'll likely sell those on eBay.
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Post by Larry »

I would have been about ten years old when I first saw my two older
brothers playing chess on what I regarded back then as a checkers board.
We were poor people, and the chess 'pieces' they were using were actually
pieces of paper with the names of the pieces written on them. I was
intrigued that both colored squares were being used, instead of just one
colored squares, as in checkers. We lived in Australia's deep north and the
era was the late 1950's, and we did'nt even live in town, but 15 miles out
of town, in the bush, in a tin shed. So chess did'nt really catch on with me
at that time.
As the years rolled by and I moved up in school, there were chess opponents
at the close of each school year, but otherwise none. I did notice that I could
easily trounce pretty much all of the others, not that I was strong, but rather
they were weak.
I'm guessing I'm easily the eldest among us here on the forum, because I
was 30 or so when the first chess comp appeared on the market. Not being
into chess at that time, but preoccupied with raising a family, I did'nt
become aware of commercially available chess computers, or for that matter,
home computers in general.
The year was 1981 when a friend called me up and asked me to drop around to his place. He remembered I was one of the better high school
chess players and wanted me to see something. The 'something' was a
Fidelity '8' level. Not even being aware it had difficulty settings, I set it up
and played it on it's base level. It did'nt put up much of a fight, but I was
fascinated that you could buy something that could actually figure out chess
moves! For several minutes I sat looking at the 64 pretty lights flashing on
and off. I had to have one of these things, but still I had priorities to
consider. Those table top chess computers were being sold for the better
part of a week's wages for people back then.
I bought a Fidelity '9' level, quite a bit stronger than the '8', and with
more options. Of course there was no internet at the time, but I craved
ever more playing strength, and was quick to snap up a Super Connie when
they came out. This was followed soon after by an Elegance late in '84,
a machine I still own to this day. A couple more years passed and I noticed
in the 'Trading Post' sales periodical a Novag Expert for sale, just near where
I worked. I grabbed it for $450, and also own it to this day.
Soon after the personal computers got strong and affordable, and I bought
Genius2. Could'nt believe it's playing strength, and turned my back on the
dedicated's for quite some years.
About eight years back, late one morning at a local flea market a lady
was packing her unsold stuff, and had yet to pack a chess computer. It was
a Tandy1850, all complete and minty. She was ticked off at the time, and
when I asked how much she muttered "One dollar!!". I of course snapped it
up . This reignited my interest in the dedicateds.
Sydney had, more or less, only one chess supplier that sold dedicated
chess comps around that time. The major department stores had by then
given up on them. The owner had long grown tired of the dedicateds after
a couple decades. They were no longer the lucrative trade they had earlier
been. He had old chess comps piled up, some working, some not, some
complete, some not, some new, but mostly used. I noticed a Fidelity Excel,
bare board, and assumed it was a non worker. I plugged it in and it powered
up. It had an led out, and in pretty ordinary cosmetic condition, but I was
interested. I offered him $20 and he accepted. I knew nothing about the
Excel versions and on the train home the '6098' number on the base plate
meant nothing to me. It was of course a Mach3, rather sought after unit.
From there my collection grew. I'm actually moving into the consolidation
phase of my collection now as I have several dozen units not counting
hand helds. It's understandable that some collect hand helds only when you
consider the small amount of storage space they need. I've got a number
of doubles that will slowly be fed onto ebay in the coming years, and I
expect to show a loss on some of them. Overall however, I'd say the
collection has come close to being free when I factor in the bargains I got.
It's been a fun ride, and it's probably twice a week on average that I pull
one down out of the closet and have a game. Probably monthly on
average that I play two machines against each other.
I have a debt of gratitude to Steve, who has bought on my behalf and
shipped to me when a US seller will not sell to foreigners. This hobby has
brought me into contact with like minded people, very nice and helpful
people at that.
Got to get back to the Atlanta now, it might have found the mate-in-8....
regards,
Larry
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Location: Moscow, Russia

Post by IvenGO »

I started to play chess at the age of 7, at 9 I saw a chess computer first time in my life - we both played in the same tourney - it was bulgarian "Partner": I got 4,5 from 7 and it got 5 or 5,5 if I remind correctly. One year later I played several "exhibition" games with Mephisto Europa - that time it was very tough opponent for me; one more year after I met Mephisto Mega IV in a tournament game and lost... At age of 12 my father bought me Mephisto Polgar - it was a BIG LUCK - and I took a lot of playing against it, especially I had completely re-built my style from carefully-positional to agressive-attacking and this helped me to achieved Candidate Master title several years after. I also had an experience with some PC-software like CM2000/2100 and Psion, then Sargon and Genius, but still like dedicates much more! Now Im happy to have possibility and some money to collect the devices I missed in childhood like TurboKing, for example...
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