Ron Nelson Ever Copied, Used , Cloned the Spracklen?

[ChessChallenger]

I am the one whose name is on US Patent 4,235,442.
I am the one who programmed every line of code for every chess game produced by Excalibur Electronics. There was no team. Just me.
I designed every schematic, every circuit board, every housing.
I wrote and desktop published every Instruction Manual.
I designed everything about the Excalibur LCD Chess. It's new housing design was later copied by Sony in their Walkman Bean.
I designed and programmed the Excalibur Gametime Chess Clock.

The Excalibur Grandmaster design is totally my work. I wrote the H8 code.
The book openings for all the Excalibur Chess Games was designed by Larry Kaufman. Larry Kaufman is a most brilliant Chess Master that understood computer chess search. He would explain to me how Franz Moerch evaluated positions, just by playing his program. He was incredible. He wrote a list of things for an evaluation function and how to balance it. His piece weightings were different than the Spracklens.

mmm Chess Engines...Look at the published Z80 Sargon code, When the 6502 code was demoed at Fidelity, Dan couldn't stop saying how fast it was.
There was a dramatic software design change. All static eval and fast search,
When I finally saw the source code I cried. It was the most unprofessional program I had ever seen, Because of the Apple II development limitation all comments were skipped. All labels brief. Only Dan could maintain and add code. But Dan explained it was the Attack Bitmaps that was the major improvement. In 1981 at the California ACM Computer Chess Tournament, Kathy introduced me to their friend Ken Thompson. I asked him about his Belle hardware chess machine, and he was quick to explain how the Hardware Attack Bitmaps worked. I realized that attack bitmap approach was now in a Chess Challenger, but in software. I used the Belle Attack Map generation on my H8 program.

[spacious_mind]

Thank you for your explanations, there are a lot of gaps with Excalibur Electronics as unfortunately for us collectors of these dedicated chess computers nothing was ever documented well as to who the actual chess program authors might be for these computers.

Therefore it would be fantastic to finally fill in these gaps and record some history behind these computers. What every dedicated chess collector would like to know more about is who the original chess program author was and follow that lineage through the history of dedicated chess computers.

Excalibur began with selling a range of computers that were produced by Krypton (an Eric White and David Levy Company) and a few others with Novag (whose chess programs would be David Kittinger). At that time everything is a little fuzzy in our knowledge with many gaps, not least because of being unsure on when you (Ron Nelson) joined Excalibur after Mephisto/Saitek.

One of the programs that is discussed a lot by us is the lineage of Mirage - Ivan - Igor - Grandmaster. Especially since Eric White at a Toys and Games Exhibition in Germany told everyone while displaying Mirage that he was planning to sell his baby (quote from Eric White meaning Mirage) to Excalibur for the North American market.

This lineage gap is further compounded with the practical knowledge from playing and testing all these computers that everything about these computers with the exception of style settings, speech and game play seems to have the same origin as Krypton Challenge, Krypton Regency, CXG Legend, CXG Concerto and Accolade, Excalbur Legend II and Excalibur Avenger.

Excalbur Igor seems to be from play tests the exact same root chess program as Mirage whereas Grandmaster does indeed deviate more.

For both of these computers you can however see a complete modernization and overhaul in the computers design to any predecessors.

Since Grandmaster does deviate more in its style of play. Is this a result of the inclusion of the Belle Attack Map Generation that you implemented? Was this enhancement also included in Mirage, Ivan and Igor? As this implementation could explain their complete difference in play behavior to Excalibur Legend II and Excalibur Avenger as well as the other Kryptons and CXG.

On the other ranges of Excalibur computers you can also follow the progression from Distribution to Manufacturing quite well especially with the leaps made in the design changes and programs used from for example Kingmaster III, King Arthur and all the LCD handhelds onwards.

There seems to be 3 or 4 different base chess programs used throughout all the ranges but with continuous changes and enhancements made to new releases. These changes can even be followed in the handheld LCD's with game differences between Models 375, 375-1, 375-2 etc. Am I correct with this?

There are also two other enigma that have us all confused. Excalibur Alexandra followed by Ivan II and Phantom Force seems to be very different to other Excalibur in its play behavior and Excalibur Glass Chess which although the same design as Lexibook does play differently as well.

Sorry for bombarding you with all these questions but as a collector and owner of all Excalibur computers (albeit 3 that I know of) I am of course seeking to know the true history of Excalibur.

Best regards

[Steve B]

Welcome to to the Forum Ron
an honor to have you here

we have been Debating here for years about two Excalibur computers specifically
the GM and The Mirage

i am sorry to make you state it again but i would like to ask
where you the programmer for both or either of these computers?

as you can read from this thread and other threads here.. i have been defending you as the programmer of these computers as a result of email discussions you and i had between the years 2002-2007 or there abouts
perhaps you remember me?

Best Regards
Steve B

[spacious_mind]

There seems to be 3 or 4 different base chess programs used throughout all the ranges but with continuous changes and enhancements made to new releases.

Actually thinking it through, it probably only requires two base chess programs to create the complete unique range of Excalibur with all your knowledge and experience to enhance and improve, which would be a Ponder program and a non Ponder program for the lower strength computers?

Best regards

[ChessChallenger]

Welcome to to the Forum Ron
an honor to have you here

we have been Debating here for years about two Excalibur computers specifically
the GM and The Mirage

i am sorry to make you state it again but i would like to ask
where you the programmer for both or either of these computers?

as you can read from this thread and other threads here.. i have been defending you as the programmer of these computers as a result of email discussions you and i had between the years 2002-2007 or there abouts
perhaps you remember me?

Best Regards
Steve B

Yes, I programmed the Grand Master and The Mirage.

I was starting to look back at my archives and was reminded of my new Grand Master design. Which was completely costed out in Sept 2010. But Excalibur went under, and the go ahead for 2011 intro was cancelled. The goal was to have Grand Master retail at US $120. From the outside it would be virtually identical, but inside a new Auto Sensory scheme using membrane switch technology and super magnets (no reed switches). Cost came in at $31.44/3Kunits

[Steve B]

Yes, I programmed the Grand Master and The Mirage.

thank you for your reply
and so ends a long running debate...

Best Regards
Steve

[ChessChallenger]

History Trivia #1
While Dave Kittinger was still in Alaska, I came upon his MyChess program.
I liked how it used it knights in it's playing style, and saw he was a strong chess player and was programming in Z80. I told Sid Samole we should talk with him. He may have relocated to California by the time we contacted him. But we did, and we flew him to Miami and Sid Samole made a deal with him and they shook hands on it. I took him to lunch afterwards and we discussed technical details. He called a week later to say he was sorry but he had to break his gentleman's agreement since he was going to instead work for the Hong Kong Novag company.
Months later, after Chafitz & Applied Concepts had "screwed" the Spracklens, Kathy called Sid Samole.

History Trivia #2
In 1981 I was at the WMCCC in Travemünde, Germany with Dan & Kathy.
After one of the Commercial Group games Dan "played" with Chess Champion Mark V, he came back upset and taken aback. Mark Taylor had the chutzpah to tell him he had a bug in his (Dan's) code and where it was. When Dan got home he confirmed it.

[Steve B]

thanks for those interesting pieces of trivia
fascinating stuff

i have sent you a private message(PM)
to read it....look to the top of your screen and you will see a link that says..
you have 1 new message
click on it to read it

Best Regards
Steve

[Fernando]

Welcome to to the Forum Ron
an honor to have you here

we have been Debating here for years about two Excalibur computers specifically
the GM and The Mirage

i am sorry to make you state it again but i would like to ask
where you the programmer for both or either of these computers?

as you can read from this thread and other threads here.. i have been defending you as the programmer of these computers as a result of email discussions you and i had between the years 2002-2007 or there abouts
perhaps you remember me?

Best Regards
Steve B

Yes, I programmed the Grand Master and The Mirage.

I was starting to look back at my archives and was reminded of my new Grand Master design. Which was completely costed out in Sept 2010. But Excalibur went under, and the go ahead for 2011 intro was cancelled. The goal was to have Grand Master retail at US $120. From the outside it would be virtually identical, but inside a new Auto Sensory scheme using membrane switch technology and super magnets (no reed switches). Cost came in at $31.44/3Kunits

I wonder, Mr Nelson, If you have given a thought to the idea to perform some kind of comeback to the scene with one of those projects that were not in time before Excalibur demise, or produced by you after that. As you know, Millenium has produced a dedicated unit on the ground of a Lang program and as far as I know, the marketing has been successful.
There are lot of old farts like me and others here all around the world.
I would love to play, say, a Sensory 8 challenger -I have every fidelity you programmed- perhaps greatly improved by the hardware now existent and by your own developments in all these years.
Or an Alexandra that this time computers all the time

Can we expect somethihg of the sort, Mr Nelson?

Fern

[mclane]

Welcome to to the Forum Ron
an honor to have you here

we have been Debating here for years about two Excalibur computers specifically
the GM and The Mirage

i am sorry to make you state it again but i would like to ask
where you the programmer for both or either of these computers?

as you can read from this thread and other threads here.. i have been defending you as the programmer of these computers as a result of email discussions you and i had between the years 2002-2007 or there abouts
perhaps you remember me?

Best Regards
Steve B

If this is really Ron, he can also
Explain the differences between

Chess challenger 10 A / B / C

Chess challenger sensory voice

None of the machine has permanent brain,
And mainly used z80 CPUs ( with the exception of challenger 10 C using older
8088 CPU first used in challenger 1-3).

When spracklen were hired for fidelity
The CPU changed into 6502 and permanent brain was used.


IMO There is not much difference between igor/ grandmaster.

chess champion Mark v is very selective, while fidelity (spracklen) programs are not.
Overall I see no big change between mark v from 1981 and later cxg Sphinx on 68000 hardware with Sphinx 40/50.
IMO Both programs are very selective and only the hardware has changed.

[IanO]

History Trivia #1
While Dave Kittinger was still in Alaska, I came upon his MyChess program.
I liked how it used it knights in it's playing style, and saw he was a strong chess player and was programming in Z80. I told Sid Samole we should talk with him. He may have relocated to California by the time we contacted him. But we did, and we flew him to Miami and Sid Samole made a deal with him and they shook hands on it. I took him to lunch afterwards and we discussed technical details. He called a week later to say he was sorry but he had to break his gentleman's agreement since he was going to instead work for the Hong Kong Novag company.
Months later, after Chafitz & Applied Concepts had "screwed" the Spracklens, Kathy called Sid Samole.

History Trivia #2
In 1981 I was at the WMCCC in Travemünde, Germany with Dan & Kathy.
After one of the Commercial Group games Dan "played" with Chess Champion Mark V, he came back upset and taken aback. Mark Taylor had the chutzpah to tell him he had a bug in his (Dan's) code and where it was. When Dan got home he confirmed it.

Oh, these are some juicy tidbits! To think, Fidelity was just that close to becoming the stable for Kittinger engines.

I just want to say thank you Ron for your long programming and design career. I grew up as a kid chess player teething on your Chess Challenger 7. That thing was built like a brick!

And now that I'm coaching kids, I got them a used Igor as a practice partner to aspire to. The low-depth levels, coaching features, and silly sound effects do catch their attention and give them a fighting chance, since the 12MHz H8 is so much faster than Ye Olde Z80! (Say, do you know who was the "voice of Igor"?)

Ian Osgood

[paulwise3]

Great to hear from one of the legends of dedicated computer chess programming!
And for what it's worth: I am very glad and satisfied with my Excalibur Grandmaster

Best regards,
Paul

[Mike Watters]

I am the one who programmed every line of code for every chess game produced by Excalibur Electronics. There was no team. Just me.
I designed every schematic, every circuit board, every housing.
I wrote and desktop published every Instruction Manual.

Welcome. The more you feel able to tell us about Fidelity and Excalibur chess computers the happier we will be.

However these are extraordinary claims you make. Extraordinary not least because we know that 20+ Excalibur models are clones of chess computers released by Novag, CXG and Krypton/Systema with chess programs written by David Kittinger, Mark Taylor, Gyula Horvath etc. Apparently the same housings, the same hardware and the same (or very similar) programs.

So, the 1993 Excalibur Chess Wizard is a 1992 CXG Sphinx Seville, same housing, 4 bit singlechip and Mark Taylor program.







The 1997 Excalibur Karpov 2294 is apparently a Novag Emerald Classic Plus, itself a minor downgrade from the 1996 Novag Emerald Classic with a David Kittinger program.






And so it goes on......

Excuse some of us if we remain sceptical when there are so many contradictions and unanswered questions, hence the debate on numerous threads here.

Mike

[Steve B]

Excuse some of us if we remain sceptical when there are so many contradictions and unanswered questions, hence the debate on numerous threads here.

Mike

Ron can answer for himself but I can tell you that listing obvious clones does not contradict his statements
it was obvious to me that Ron means computers produced by Excalibur and on one else such as the GM and Mirage,Deluxe Talking Chess..etc..etc..
which is what the various bebates centered around

I can also confirm that he is the real Ron Nelson and he has already said in plain clear English that he is the programmer for the GM and Mirage which you know as well as I do ..was always the main focus of the debates
its time you and others showed some humility here and
at least admit you were wrong regarding the GM and Mirage
that would be a good start


you are hearing it from the man himself
this is not honest skepticism..its denial


Take The High Road Regards
Steve

[spacious_mind]

Excuse some of us if we remain sceptical when there are so many contradictions and unanswered questions, hence the debate on numerous threads here.

Mike

Ron can answer for himself but I can tell you that listing obvious clones does not contradict his statements
it was obvious to me that Ron means computers produced by Excalibur and on one else such as the GM and Mirage
which what the various bebates centered around


Take The High Road Regards
Steve

Hi Steve,

Yes Ron included Mirage as an afterthought with an indirect response when I suggested as such in my email.
His original email clearly states that he is the programmer of Grandmaster. Mirage was manufactured by Krypton therefore there are lot of gaps that Ron might hopefully fill in with regards to his connection with Krypton and how all that fit together since we have two claimants for Mirage being Eric White and Krypton and Excalibur.

Mike is also correct with the user manual statement. The manuals for Igor & Mirage and Ivan (have not checked Grandmaster) all clearly originate from an author that wrote them starting with Legend & Concerto in 1992 for CXG which is a Horvath, therefore there as Mike correctly pointed out there are discrepancies all over the place and not just with the obvious Novag/Excalibur examples.

No one is questioning the influence from Ron Nelson and his major role in the history of dedicated chess computers.

We are just hoping to fill in the gaps correctly for proper preservation of history rather than vagueness and assumption. It would be too much of a shame to go down that path of inaccuracies.

You never know maybe 200 years from now there is a nostalgic renaissance for chess and just like a Mona Lisa what we write today is followed as gospel tomorrow. I don't know about you but I refuse to lead people down a wrong garden path which at face value Ron statements are with regards to the three that Mike highlighted in his post.

We are hoping to have these gaps filled in from someone who truly knows what his role was and who else played a part, Ron's statement as it reads disclaims everybody but himself and I am sure that was not his intent.

It would be nice to know when Ron joined Excalibur and what his first projects were. It would also be nice to know his involvement with Eric White and David Levy at Krypton. Mirage was conceived around 1993/1994 by Krypton. That would be around the time of Ron working at Mephisto/Saitek or just leaving.

Excalbur no longer exists therefore is it so wrong to ask for some knowledge and facts?

At least 3 different chess authored programs came out at around the very same time, on at least 3 different hardware, how would this be possible to have one person author all three original chess programs unless the origins were from 3 different original chess authors. No one is even disputing enhancements made to root programs as per the Belle thing.

We are all trying to put the right people behind the computers. The vision, concept and implementation we all know belongs 100% to Ron Nelson from a certain point onwards at Excalibur no one is disputing this.

We are trying to find out chess program authorship whether it be:

Nelson, Horvath & Thompson on some or
Nelson & someone else on others or
Ron Nelson on specifics

If Ron Nelson used Thompson Attack tables then that alone means a shared authorship to be correct in how we name chess authors. We know with Mirage many things indicate towards Horvath, what would be wrong to admit and name it all correctly for the chess program.

All this requires some explanation.

Best regards