Ron Nelson Ever Copied, Used , Cloned the Spracklen?

[Mike Watters]

Hi All

Well with Christmas over I emailed David Levy yesterday drawing his attention to all Ron's posts. As David was deeply involved in the Hong Kong/Chinese chess computer industry and sourced many of the programs for the early Excaliburs built by CXG he seemed able, if he wished to, to erase the doubts of the remaining doubters. His reply includes
"I am unable to make any useful comments on what Ron has recorded in these postings. The only thing I can contribute is that, so far as I am aware, Ron is truthful and honest, and I have never had any cause to doubt his word."

So personally I will be acknowledging Ron Nelson and Larry Kaufman as the program team responsible for the H8 Excaliburs. In a similar way to the joint credit given to Mark Taylor/David Levy and Craig Barnes/Julio Kaplan in the SciSys section of my website. Obviously Ron programmed many other later Excalibur's and I intend to go through all 60+ and give a list if nobody else does it (just my conclusions for what they are worth).

I am certainly glad Ron came here to put the record straight. It would be a shame if he didn't continue. Everyone's different, some programmer's visit forums and quickly disappear, others enjoy going through the sort of history and stories which fascinate us. When I was researching Intelligent Software Bruce Tanner, brilliant programmer of one of the Enterprise home computer custom chips, got a great reception on the Enterprise forum and spent lots of time interacting with the fans of that machine answering questions.

It didn't start well with the ridiculous claim that Ron had been responsible for everything. It didn't continue that well when Ron seeks to disclaim responsibility for the CC1 reverse notation (his prototype, his program), or the Mirage engineering (he's in charge of engineering and the buck stops there surely) and the Par Ex has a very similar pcb and components to the Excellence so why would you not minimise production costs?................

However what we wanted was information we could trust on who authored the chess engines for Excalibur and, as far as I am concerned, that is what we have got. If I am one of the last to get there sobeit.

All the best
Mike

[spacious_mind]

Well..i wonder...when will someone edit the Wiki showing Nelson as the Programmer for the GM,Mirage.Ivan ,Igor etc.etc..?

http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/in ... randmaster

http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/in ... bur_Mirage

http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/in ... libur_Ivan

http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/in ... libur_Igor

Time To Correct The Record Regards
Steve

I am sure it will be corrected in time. Right now not everybody is busy with forums and correctness etc. It's time for Christmas and New Years Eve! I think you are a little harsh on them. If it wasn't for that wiki, I would never have been able to get a reasonably balanced chesscomputer collection in just one year!
So I have the greatest respect for their initiative. And as for all wiki's: it's all volunteers work, and making mistakes is very human...

Peace on earth regards,
(Imagine...)
Paul

You are correct Paul. It takes time and research to now put all the Excalibur pieces together.

Have patience Steve and stop hounding people who I am sure are working on it. Let's focus on getting all the information together now.

What's annoying is that everyone is happy to throw out some BS but very few people are interested in rolling up their sleeves and putting some work into it.

I have started alphabetically working through Excalibur Range it is not revised on my Website pages yet because it needs confirmation on accuracy, but it will be posted hopefully quite soon once it is confirmed as well as it can be confirmed.

Hopefully Ron is still watching if he hasn't already been run off with the craziness that is being posted here. You have to remember that it is also in his interest to archive his work correctly otherwise he would never have posted the List of computers and other Excalibur products in one of his first posts.

ALEXANDRA THE GREAT



The specifications for a SPLB32A 8-bit CMOS microprocessor is shown above. It explains the size needed to incorporate Alexandra's speech but missing is the actual chess program size - ROM and available RAM for the chess program. Also the SPLB32A spec sheet states that it is a 5 MHz processor where previously we had all assumed it was 10 MHz. Therefore some additional research and clarification needs to be done.

ALPHA 2-IN-1



I have notated this computer since it comes from Krypton as David Levy & Mark Taylor. It also precedes Ron Nelson.

CHESS EXPRESS



Same with this computer it precedes Ron Nelson. Plenty of gaps on this one.

CHESS STATION



A spec sheet that I have found quotes KS57 as 6 MHz yet we have always quoted the speed as 5 MHz. So some research needs to be done on it as I can't remember if the Manufacturer quoted the 5 MHz or if someone had opened the computer and looked at its insides? Available RAM is missing for the program.

CHESS WIZARD



Precedes Ron Nelson.

CRUSADER



6508 Spec sheets show a 6508 as 1 MHz. Is this correct? Needs confirming. Also missing is the available RAM for the program. Also since Krypton also sold the identical Crusader I would have to assume that it was agreed between both companies that Crusader should be sold by both companies?

Anyway as you can see from the above there is quite a lot of work involved in going through 60+ computers.

Rather than bickering how about you all start rolling up your sleeves and working together on this?

Best regards

[Steve B]

Have patience Steve and stop hounding people who I am sure are working on it


Rather than bickering how about you all start rolling up your sleeves and working together on this?

Best regards

im not hounding anyone
and i dont need your lecturing..
i asked for those that edit the Wiki to now list Nelson as the programmer
i asked this once

not sure who you think you are but you are last person here who should be lecturing anyone. i am getting a bit tired of statements like this from you whether directed at me or Fern or anyone else here

Steve

[Fernando]

Have patience Steve and stop hounding people who I am sure are working on it


Rather than bickering how about you all start rolling up your sleeves and working together on this?

Best regards

im not hounding anyone
and i dont need your lecturing..
i asked for those that edit the Wiki to now list Nelson as the programmer
i asked this once

not sure who you think you are but you are last person here who should be lecturing anyone. i am getting a bit tired of statements like this from you whether directed at me or Fern or anyone else here

Steve

Perhaps SpaciousMind is sometimes a little bit harsh, BUT he is an incredible strong deliverer, with his statistics and all. I doubt very much even I would be capable of doing all that.
So..

Nobody is perfect regards
Fern

[spacious_mind]

Have patience Steve and stop hounding people who I am sure are working on it


Rather than bickering how about you all start rolling up your sleeves and working together on this?

Best regards

im not hounding anyoone
and i dont need your lecturing
i asked for those that edit the Wiki to now list Nelson as the programmer
i asked this once

not sure who you think you are but i am getting a bit tired of statements like this from you

Steve

Well is the statement not correct? Besides you take it as if you are the only only one covered with my post.

After all is it you that started these Wiki comments or were you fed? As I said people jump in and out and then watch the soap develop on their screen.

You had it explained on how Wiki works by both Peter and Jose and I know you probably didn't need to be explained in the first place, yet you still repeated your demand that it be fixed immediately. I have not contributed in Wiki in a few years but I do know that I can go there and correct things if I choose to as any Wiki member can do as well. You also have some contributions there, therefore I would assume the same applies to you.

But perhaps just like you I know I am reluctant to do this because one of the difficulties with any Wiki is that if someone put the effort into the work then I would prefer to have that someone correct it as well. Rather than just jumping in every few minutes and overwrite someone else's work.

In the meantime what I can work on is correcting my pages as carefully as possible because I do want them to be right at the end of the day.

Instead of watching a soap opera if people are really interested then they could start by researching some of the stuff themselves and posting their findings instead of continuing snippets of abuse of other people hard work.

No one who puts work into something that is their hobby and enjoyment does this with the intent of reporting wrong.

Best regards

[Steve B]

Instead of watching a soap opera if people are really interested then they could start by researching some of the stuff themselves and posting their findings instead of continuing snippets of abuse of other people hard work.

more nonsense
you are the one creating soap operas when you make comments about hounding and abuse or throwing out "BS"
what do you mean by me being "fed"?

the wiki comments were started with Jon who pointed out some errors in the postings.. i asked about the process of editing the wiki because i really didnt know

Peter replied to my question and then i posted one time..that i wonder when the changes would be made in order to correct the record
Paul Replied and i did not reply again
there is no hounding or abuse


these comments are personal in nature and not directed to the topic under discussion

Steve

[spacious_mind]

Ok some progress with Excalibur Alexandra:



I misread the RAM previously. It is 1216 Byte. Therefore the ROM for the chess program including all its speech seems to be inside the 512 KB ROM. Just missing confirmation of whether a 10 MHz quartz was used or not.

Best regards

[Fluppio]

Hi at all,

it's only our hobby

Many years Ron was listed as the programmer in the wiki for Excalibur chess computers, only erased because of the long discussion here on Hiarcs forum. Now we should calm a few days, because there are still different opinions in who should be named in the wiki. Personally I would prefer Ron Nelson solo as programmer, as we don't know if Larry Kaufman has done any work besides consulting. F.e. Ossi Weiner or Noomen aren't mentioned too for the Richard Lang programs, so this shouldn't be done with Ron Nelson. My opinion.

I'm not familiar with the whole techninal things at Excalibur, the kind of processors, ROM, RAM, Speed. This has to be corrected by someone else.

Hard work regards
Peter

[spacious_mind]

More progress:



ROM should be 1 KB

The RAM for this one can either be:

6805P2 = 64 Byte
6805P4 = 112 Byte

Therefore Crusader might have to be opened to see if there is a reference somewhere.

MHz still needs confirming at 1 MHz

Best regards

[spacious_mind]

And even more progress:



Revised Chess Station info. The only unknown is the actual speed as the speed can be divided on this chip.

Speed: 0.4 – 6.0 MHz - CPU clock divider circuit (by 4, 8, or 64)

Best regards

[Fernando]

And even more progress:



Revised Chess Station info. The only unknown is the actual speed as the speed can be divided on this chip.

Speed: 0.4 – 6.0 MHz - CPU clock divider circuit (by 4, 8, or 64)

Best regards

Damn, man, you are incredible.
F

[spacious_mind]

And even more progress:



Revised Chess Station info. The only unknown is the actual speed as the speed can be divided on this chip.

Speed: 0.4 – 6.0 MHz - CPU clock divider circuit (by 4, 8, or 64)

Best regards

Damn, man, you are incredible.
F

NO!! not just me I have very educated help!!

Smarter than me ..regards

[paulwise3]

Personally I would prefer Ron Nelson solo as programmer, as we don't know if Larry Kaufman has done any work besides consulting. F.e. Ossi Weiner or Noomen aren't mentioned too for the Richard Lang programs, so this shouldn't be done with Ron Nelson. My opinion.

I am inclined to agree with Peter. Of course the idea of attacking tables and what evaluation criteria should be used and how to order them are not Ron's own, but that can be considered as exchanging ideas with likeminded people. Numerous people have taken profit from Ron's starting ideas. And implementing good ideas into a program is still quite a job, as I know of my personal experience as former application developer.

PS: I would love to see the evaluation scheme Larry Kaufman presented to Ron, so I could give it a try for myself

Programming and (lots of) debugging regards,
Paul

[Monsieur Plastique]

Personally I would prefer Ron Nelson solo as programmer, as we don't know if Larry Kaufman has done any work besides consulting.

I tend to agree. Without knowing precisely what contributions were made and their nature, it is arguably more inaccurate to credit additional authors than it is to simply credit Ron. As for attack tables, again we do not the precise nature of the intellectual property exchanges that any or may not have gone on.

I think trying ascribe too may credits for specific authorship would be getting up there with co-crediting Paul McMartney's Mum and Dad for Love Me Do.

I think it is better to simply ascribe authorship to Ron but to add qualifying comments that there was a consultancy type of interaction both in terms of Kaufmann and in terms of Ken Thompson and the Belle Attack Tables.

I would be unhappy not to see these qualifications in the same way I would be unhappy to see two or three authors credited.

[Fernando]

Personally I would prefer Ron Nelson solo as programmer, as we don't know if Larry Kaufman has done any work besides consulting.

I tend to agree. Without knowing precisely what contributions were made and their nature, it is arguably more inaccurate to credit additional authors than it is to simply credit Ron. As for attack tables, again we do not the precise nature of the intellectual property exchanges that any or may not have gone on.

I think trying ascribe too may credits for specific authorship would be getting up there with co-crediting Paul McMartney's Mum and Dad for Love Me Do.

I think it is better to simply ascribe authorship to Ron but to add qualifying comments that there was a consultancy type of interaction both in terms of Kaufmann and in terms of Ken Thompson and the Belle Attack Tables.

I would be unhappy not to see these qualifications in the same way I would be unhappy to see two or three authors credited.

Sole authorship of anything appertain perhaps to the gold age of Greece. When everything is just being invented, isolated guys carry the flag; after that everything tends to be an interchange where the last guy to sign or collect the stuff is credited, but is already a collective labor.