Chess King Triomphe

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Larry
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Post by Larry »

Chessmaster Ireland wrote: BTW.. Larry did you win the auction?

Bryan
Hi Bryan, no I did not win it. No problem, I'll just wait
five years for the next one to come along. :cry:
Larry
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Bryan Whitby
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Post by Bryan Whitby »

Hi Mike, Steve, Larry & Jose
Now you've thrown another spanner in the works suggesting Kaare Danielsen might have infact been the programmer instead of Mark Taylor!!
Yes I completely missed who you where trying to suggest but during that period Kaare doesn't mention anything about Intelligent Chess Software only the following;
1981-85 CXG and SaiTek, Hong Kong. Founded the company LogiSoft ApS and developed a 4K chess computer, which was sold in approximately 200.000 units, and a 16K chess computer, which was sold in approximately 50.000 units. The 16K chess computer was one of the best 16K chess computers at the time, and the 4K chess computer is still the strongest 4K chess computer in the world. My work with chess computers has given me a lot of experience with development of mass-market software, where the quality requirements are extreme. For instance, my contracts stated that I had to pay the cost of making new masks, approximately 5000 dollars, if any bugs were found in my programs. My contract also stated that I was not entitled to any pay at all, if my programs were not finished in time for the Christmas sale.
Maybe Kaare did some freelancing? Another interesting statement comes from my recent communication with David Levy who says "There are so many names for the various products, and the names were often decided by the manufacturers after we delivered the programs, so in many cases I don't know which program ended up in what model"
The Mystery Get's Deeper Regards
Bryan
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Bryan Whitby
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Post by Bryan Whitby »

Well here's the proof that Kaare didn't program any of the Chess King computers.

"I did not do any of the Chess King programs or any other programs for David Levy, but we both worked for some of the same companies at the same time.

Back in 1982 we both did some programs for SciSys which were endorsed by Kasparov, then from 1983 to 1986 we both did a couple of programs for CXG, and after that we both did some programs for Lexibook.

So we know each other very well and are good friends, but I have never worked together with David Levy or any of his programmers".


Danish Pastry Regards
Bryan
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Post by Mike Watters »

Chessmaster Ireland wrote:Well here's the proof that Kaare didn't program any of the Chess King computers.

"I did not do any of the Chess King programs or any other programs for David Levy, but we both worked for some of the same companies at the same time.

Back in 1982 we both did some programs for SciSys which were endorsed by Kasparov, then from 1983 to 1986 we both did a couple of programs for CXG, and after that we both did some programs for Lexibook.

So we know each other very well and are good friends, but I have never worked together with David Levy or any of his programmers".


Danish Pastry Regards
Bryan
OK. Well done Bryan.

If Mark Taylor programmed the Triomphe and Counter Gambit then they may be the only 4K programs he wrote and only time he wrote for the 6301 chip. Not that it would have been a problem for him.

Unless someone is inclined to spend hours working out the style of play and nearest equivalents we will probably get no nearer to the truth.

Bringing home the bacon regards
Mike
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Yeno 301 XL

Post by bataais »

I suspect that Mark Taylor is also responsible for the 6301 4K program of the Yeno 301 XL.

My clues are:
1.
an article in the CSS 2/89, page 17, where someone says the Yeno 301XL comes from David Levy.
2.
comparing the layout of CXG Computachess II and the Yeno reveals the same usage of the leds, indicating figures and game results.
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Post by bataais »

The manuals of Yeno 301XL and Chess King Counter Gambit show exactly the same levels and times.

It seems Chess King Triomphe with only 8 levels was the first, then Counter Gambit with 16 levels, followed by Yeno 301XL, with additional setup function.
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Post by bataais »

After solving the riddle of the Yeno 416XL, (it's a Morsch, not a Kaplan, closely related to CXG Sphinx Chess Professor => https://www.schachcomputer.info/forum/s ... php?t=5522 )
I now suspect the Yeno 301XL, the Chess King Counter Gambit and Triomphe to be a Morsch programme. I think around 1987 when leaving Mephisto he got in contact with David Levy (Chess King and CXG).

It could well be his only 4K chess program and his first for the 6301 chip, and it's the best playing in 4K, followed by Kaare Danielsen. Mark Taylor never wrote any strong 4K chess, and at the time CXG only produced some of his weak 4K chess computers like the (often cloned) Sphinx Granada.

Another clue is in Morsch's article about the H8 chip, where he talks about single chip chess computers, the Hitachi 6301 and the limitations of only having 128 Bytes of RAM ( http://www.schaakcomputers.nl/hein_veld ... l%20Master )

Maybe someone could ask Frans Morsch?
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Post by bataais »

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spacious_mind
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Post by spacious_mind »

Your argument might be considered if you are talking about Chess King Master and Counter Gambit. Not sure about Triomphe as that program is very weak when I tried out mine a couple of years ago. I don't think that you can reference Triomphe and Counter Gambit in one and same discussion and point them all towards Morsch.

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Nick
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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

spacious_mind wrote:
I don't think that you can reference Triomphe and Counter Gambit in one and same discussion and point them all towards Morsch.

Regards
Nick
Neither do i
same debate ..only 6 years later.. with a new suggested programmer other then Mark Taylor


Arc De Triumphe Regards
Steve
bataais
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Post by bataais »

True, I can't speak about Triomphe and Counter Gambit as I only have a Yeno 301XL. But it seems Triomphe and Counter Gambit share the same program, as written in the Chess King brochure http://www.schaakcomputers.nl/hein_veld ... 01987-1988.
Triomphe runs on 4Mhz, while Counter Gambit runs on 8Mhz.

Counter Gambit and 301XL have the same Levels/Times, so they could be the same. I even expect the setup function to be present in the program, but no buttons on the device.

In the link above I let Yeno 301XL and Mephisto Europa solve 9 chess problems (Mate in 2), which both solve with the same moves, mate in 3.
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spacious_mind
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Post by spacious_mind »

bataais wrote:True, I can't speak about Triomphe and Counter Gambit as I only have a Yeno 301XL. But it seems Triomphe and Counter Gambit share the same program, as written in the Chess King brochure http://www.schaakcomputers.nl/hein_veld ... 01987-1988.
Triomphe runs on 4Mhz, while Counter Gambit runs on 8Mhz.

Counter Gambit and 301XL have the same Levels/Times, so they could be the same. I even expect the setup function to be present in the program, but no buttons on the device.

In the link above I let Yeno 301XL and Mephisto Europa solve 9 chess problems (Mate in 2), which both solve with the same moves, mate in 3.
Triomphe plays very weakly if it were a Morsch it would be stronger. So a Triomphe and Counter Gambit (assuming Counter Gambit is same as Master) is a different program to Triomphe.

Unfortunately my Counter Gambit is not functioning otherwise I would tell you for sure. I do have a working Master though so I will compare the Master for sure sometime against the Triomphe.


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Nick
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Post by bataais »

Chess King Master and Philidor seem to have the same Z80 program by Richard Lang.

And I can confirm that Triomphe, Counter Gambit and Yeno 301XL are all very similar, as I replayed some of the rare published games on my 301XL and could reproduce the exact same move sequences (with the adjusted time controls).

Some Triomphe games:
https://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/i ... rnier_2013

Counter Gambit games:
http://www.schaakcomputers.nl/schaakcom ... ess%20King

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Michael
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Post by spacious_mind »

bataais wrote:Chess King Master and Philidor seem to have the same Z80 program by Richard Lang.

And I can confirm that Triomphe, Counter Gambit and Yeno 301XL are all very similar, as I replayed some of the rare published games on my 301XL and could reproduce the exact same move sequences (with the adjusted time controls).

Some Triomphe games:
https://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/i ... rnier_2013

Counter Gambit games:
http://www.schaakcomputers.nl/schaakcom ... ess%20King

Kind regards
Michael
So I take it you are retracting your theory that Triomphe and Counter Gambit are Morsch and Yeno 301 are Morsch?

If so this means that best GUESS remains Mark Taylor.

Here btw Counter Gamibt playing in a U1300 Tournament:

https://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/i ... rnier_2009

Losing to Novag Chess Champion MK III? that is very Morsch unlikely.

Since Yeno was taken over by Lexibook, Kaare Danielsen regardless of Kaare denying working directly with Chess King, remains still a good guess for Yeno 301 XL as he confirmed working for Lexibook and CXG. Probably remains still as strong an argument as Mark Taylor if not stronger, since there is zero proof that Mark Taylor ever worked on a 6301.

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Nick
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Post by bataais »

I still think Triomphe, Counter Gambit and 301XL could well be early Morsch, the mate-in-2 tests I made strongly support my theory.

Solving a mate-in-2 problem in 3 moves tells something about the search algorithm, Depth First or some form of selective deepening. Mephisto Europa (6301, 16K, Morsch) and 301XL (6301, 4K) play the exact same moves which lead to a mate-in-3. Isn't this interesting?

Here are the 9 problems:
https://www.schachcomputer.info/forum/a ... 1508064092

One can't expect too much of 4K ROM and 128Bytes of RAM, even if it's a Morsch. Triomphe is running on 4Mhz (1Mhz, clock divison by 4), so it's clearly weaker than Counter Gambit or Yeno 301XL, both running at double speed.
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