Position for Wednesday 8th Aug

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Mark Uniacke
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Position for Wednesday 8th Aug

Post by Mark Uniacke »

I thought I would start posting a regular series of interesting positions...

We start with quite an easy one from a few years ago now.

[fen]rnb2rk1/ppp2pp1/8/4pPP1/1b1qP1n1/2PP2PN/P7/RN1QKB1R w KQ - 0 1[/fen]

White to play, a couple of questions
1) What is white's best move and how long does it take your programs to find this move?

2) Who were the players involved in this game and the year?
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Ted Summers
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Good One

Post by Ted Summers »

This is a good one Mark. I can't find this position in my Mega Database 2007. So I will have to look elsewhere.
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Eelco de Groot
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Easy?

Post by Eelco de Groot »

Phew! Not quite so easy for Fruit 2.3.1 Mandarin, Mark:

rnb2rk1/ppp2pp1/8/4pPP1/1b1qP1n1/2PP2PN/P7/RN1QKB1R w KQ -

Engine: Fruit 2.3.1 Mandarin (256 MB)
by Fabien Letouzey, France


9.00 0:00 -2.12++ 1.Qd2 Qe3+ 2.Qxe3 Nxe3 3.cxb4 Nc2+
4.Kd2 Nxa1 5.Nc3 a5 6.Nd5 Nc6 7.Be2 Bxf5
8.exf5 axb4 (111.103)

9.00 0:00 -2.02 1.Qd2 Qe3+ 2.Qxe3 Nxe3 3.cxb4 Nc2+
4.Kd2 Nxa1 5.Nc3 a5 6.Nd5 Rd8 7.Nxc7 Ra7 (121.151)

9.00 0:00 -2.02 1.Qd2 Qe3+ 2.Qxe3 Nxe3 3.cxb4 Nc2+
4.Kd2 Nxa1 5.Nc3 a5 6.Nd5 Rd8 7.Nxc7 Ra7 (146.422)

10.00 0:00 -2.05 1.Qd2 Qe3+ 2.Qxe3 Nxe3 3.cxb4 Nc2+
4.Kd2 Nxa1 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Be2 a5 7.Rxa1 axb4
8.Nd5 (191.474)

11.00 0:00 -1.83 1.Qd2 Qe3+ 2.Qxe3 Nxe3 3.cxb4 Nc2+
4.Kd2 Nxa1 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Be2 Nxb4
7.Rxa1 Bd7 8.a3 Nc6 (331.025)

12.01 0:01 -2.14 1.Qd2 Qe3+ 2.Qxe3 Nxe3 3.cxb4 Nc2+
4.Kd2 Nxa1 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Be2 g6 7.g4 Nxb4
8.Rxa1 Bd7 9.Rh1 (831.549) 622

13.01 0:02 -1.86 1.Qd2 Qe3+ 2.Qxe3 Nxe3 3.cxb4 Nc2+
4.Kd2 Nxa1 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Be2 g6 7.g4 Nxb4
8.Rxa1 Bd7 9.a3 Nc6 (1.578.877) 665

14.01 0:05 -1.97 1.Qd2 Qe3+ 2.Qxe3 Nxe3 3.cxb4 Nc2+
4.Kd2 Nxa1 5.Nc3 Na6 6.Be2 g6 7.g4 Nxb4
8.Rxa1 Rd8 9.Rh1 Bd7 10.Nf2 (3.783.751) 678

15.01 0:16 -1.75 1.Qd2 Qe3+ 2.Qxe3 Nxe3 3.cxb4 Nc2+
4.Kd2 Nxa1 5.Nc3 Na6 6.Be2 g6 7.g4 Nxb4
8.Rxa1 Rd8 9.Rh1 Kg7 10.a3 Nc6 (10.782.469) 662

16.01 1:13 -1.80 1.Qd2 Qe3+ 2.Qxe3 Nxe3 3.cxb4 Nc2+
4.Kd2 Nxa1 5.Nc3 Na6 6.Be2 g6 7.g4 Nxb4
8.Rxa1 Bd7 9.a3 Na6 10.Nd5 Nc5
11.Rb1 (48.432.875) 657

16.10 7:34 -1.35++ 1.Qxg4 Bxc3+ 2.Nxc3 Qxc3+ 3.Kf2 Qxa1
4.Qh5 Qxa2+ 5.Be2 a5 6.Nf4 f6 7.gxf6 exf4
8.fxg7 Qxe2+ 9.Qxe2 fxg3+ 10.Kxg3 Rxf5 (305.634.621) 672 TB:229

16.01 13:54 -0.52 1.Qxg4 Bxc3+ 2.Nxc3 Qxc3+ 3.Kf2 Qxa1
4.Qh5 f6 5.Nf4 Bxf5 6.gxf6 Qxa2+
7.Be2 Rxf6 8.Qe8+ Rf8 9.Rh8+ Kxh8
10.Qxf8+ Qg8 11.Qxf5 Qe8 12.Bh5 Qd8
13.Ng6+ Kg8 14.Nxe5 (550.521.069) 659 TB:233

16.01 14:00 -0.52 1.Qxg4 Bxc3+ 2.Nxc3 Qxc3+ 3.Kf2 Qxa1
4.Qh5 f6 5.Nf4 Bxf5 6.gxf6 Qxa2+
7.Be2 Rxf6 8.Qe8+ Rf8 9.Rh8+ Kxh8
10.Qxf8+ Qg8 11.Qxf5 Qe8 12.Bh5 Qd8
13.Ng6+ Kg8 14.Nxe5 (554.368.085) 659 TB:233

17.01 32:52 -0.12++ 1.Qxg4 Bxc3+ 2.Ke2 Bxf5 3.Qxf5 g6
4.Qg4 Bxa1 5.Nf2 Nd7 6.Qh3 Qb2+
7.Nd2 Nf6 8.gxf6 Rab8 (1.256.134.936) 636 TB:233


Regards, Eelco
Careful! Even moonlit dewdrops,
If you’re lured to watch,
Are a wall before the truth.

- Sogyo (18th century)
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Andreas Guettinger
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Glaurung

Post by Andreas Guettinger »

It takes Glaurung2 epsilon5 4 minutes to find Qxg4.

2 -607 55 901 Kd2 Ne3
2 -264 55 1552 Qd2 Bxc3 Nxc3
3 -264 55 1938 Qd2 Bxc3 Nxc3
4 -411 55 3556 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 Kd2 Bc5
5 -390 56 5724 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 Kd2 Bc5 Be2
6 -390 56 10974 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3
7 -394 57 19907 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 Kd2 Bc5 Be2 Nc6 Na3
8 -403 60 45918 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 Nc6 Be2
9 -413 65 80928 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 a5 b5 Bd7
10 -388 73 182512 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 a5 b5 Nd7 Be2
11 -254 84 305911 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 Bd7 Be2 Nc6 Rxa1 Nxb4
12 -249 107 625633 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 a5 b5 g6 Bg2 gxf5 Rxa1 fxe4 dxe4
13 -249 139 1059915 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 a5 b5 g6 Bg2 gxf5 Rxa1 fxe4 dxe4
14 -229 207 2126080 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 g6 Bg2 gxf5 Rxa1 fxe4 Nxe4 Na6 Nf6+ Kg7 a3
15 -215 421 5724109 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 Nc6 Be2 g6 g4 Nxb4 Rxa1 Bd7 Rh1 Kg7
16 -207 920 14191566 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 Nc6 Be2 g6 g4 Nxb4 Rxa1 Bd7 a3 Nc6 Nd5
17 -209 3594 61395223 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 Nc6 Be2 Nxb4 Rxa1 Rd8 Nf2 g6 g4 Bd7 Rh1 Kg7
17 -90 23770 418641086 Qxg4 Bxc3+ Ke2 Bxa1 Qh5 Rd8 Nf2 Kf8 Qh8+ Ke7 f6+ Kd7 Qxd8+ Kxd8 Rh8+ Kd7 fxg7 Qb2+ Nd2 Nc6 g8=Q Nd4+ Ke1 Qc1+ Nd1 Nc2+ Ke2 Ke7 Qe8+ Kd6 Qxf7
18 -27 48637 857201371 Qxg4 Bxc3+ Ke2 Rd8 Nf2 Bxf5 Qxf5 Bb4 g6 Rd7 Nd2 Qxa1 gxf7+ Rxf7 Qc8+ Bf8 Qxb7 Nc6 Qxc6 Rd8 Qc4 Be7

But Hiarcs 11.1 finds it in 14 seconds at depth 13!

10 -408 60 153749 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 Kd2 Bc5 Be2 Nc6 Na3 Nxf5 exf5 Bxa3
10 -383 72 194751 Qd2
10 -253 87 243704 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 Nc6 Be2 Nxb4 Rxa1
11 -278 106 303895 Qd2
11 -292 128 382779 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 Nc6 Be2 Nxb4 Rxa1 Bd7
12 -267 238 727751 Qd2
12 -267 249 763891 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 Nc6 Be2 Nxb4 Rxa1 Bd7 Rb1 a5
13 -286 565 1718642 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 Nc6 Be2 Nxb4 Rxa1 Bd7 a3 Nc6
13 -285 1437 4124020 Qxg4
13 -242 2358 6785986 Qxg4
13 -60 4854 13608831 Qxg4 Bxc3+ Ke2 Be1 Qh5 Bxf5 exf5
14 -85 5753 16162280 Qxg4
14 -85 8076 22534352 Qxg4 Bxc3+ Ke2 Bxa1 Qh5 Rd8 Nf2 Kf8 Qh8+ Ke7 f6+ Kd7 Qxd8+ Kxd8 Rh8+ Kd7 fxg7 Qb2+ Nd2 Nc6 g8=Q Nd4+ Ke3 Qc1
regards,
Andy
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Terry McCracken
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Re: Glaurung

Post by Terry McCracken »

Andreas Guettinger wrote:It takes Glaurung2 epsilon5 4 minutes to find Qxg4.

2 -607 55 901 Kd2 Ne3
2 -264 55 1552 Qd2 Bxc3 Nxc3
3 -264 55 1938 Qd2 Bxc3 Nxc3
4 -411 55 3556 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 Kd2 Bc5
5 -390 56 5724 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 Kd2 Bc5 Be2
6 -390 56 10974 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3
7 -394 57 19907 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 Kd2 Bc5 Be2 Nc6 Na3
8 -403 60 45918 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 Nc6 Be2
9 -413 65 80928 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 a5 b5 Bd7
10 -388 73 182512 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 a5 b5 Nd7 Be2
11 -254 84 305911 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 Bd7 Be2 Nc6 Rxa1 Nxb4
12 -249 107 625633 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 a5 b5 g6 Bg2 gxf5 Rxa1 fxe4 dxe4
13 -249 139 1059915 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 a5 b5 g6 Bg2 gxf5 Rxa1 fxe4 dxe4
14 -229 207 2126080 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 g6 Bg2 gxf5 Rxa1 fxe4 Nxe4 Na6 Nf6+ Kg7 a3
15 -215 421 5724109 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 Nc6 Be2 g6 g4 Nxb4 Rxa1 Bd7 Rh1 Kg7
16 -207 920 14191566 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 Nc6 Be2 g6 g4 Nxb4 Rxa1 Bd7 a3 Nc6 Nd5
17 -209 3594 61395223 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 Nc6 Be2 Nxb4 Rxa1 Rd8 Nf2 g6 g4 Bd7 Rh1 Kg7
17 -90 23770 418641086 Qxg4 Bxc3+ Ke2 Bxa1 Qh5 Rd8 Nf2 Kf8 Qh8+ Ke7 f6+ Kd7 Qxd8+ Kxd8 Rh8+ Kd7 fxg7 Qb2+ Nd2 Nc6 g8=Q Nd4+ Ke1 Qc1+ Nd1 Nc2+ Ke2 Ke7 Qe8+ Kd6 Qxf7
18 -27 48637 857201371 Qxg4 Bxc3+ Ke2 Rd8 Nf2 Bxf5 Qxf5 Bb4 g6 Rd7 Nd2 Qxa1 gxf7+ Rxf7 Qc8+ Bf8 Qxb7 Nc6 Qxc6 Rd8 Qc4 Be7

But Hiarcs 11.1 finds it in 14 seconds at depth 13!

10 -408 60 153749 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 Kd2 Bc5 Be2 Nc6 Na3 Nxf5 exf5 Bxa3
10 -383 72 194751 Qd2
10 -253 87 243704 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 Nc6 Be2 Nxb4 Rxa1
11 -278 106 303895 Qd2
11 -292 128 382779 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 Nc6 Be2 Nxb4 Rxa1 Bd7
12 -267 238 727751 Qd2
12 -267 249 763891 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 Nc6 Be2 Nxb4 Rxa1 Bd7 Rb1 a5
13 -286 565 1718642 Qd2 Qe3+ Qxe3 Nxe3 cxb4 Nc2+ Kd2 Nxa1 Nc3 Nc6 Be2 Nxb4 Rxa1 Bd7 a3 Nc6
13 -285 1437 4124020 Qxg4
13 -242 2358 6785986 Qxg4
13 -60 4854 13608831 Qxg4 Bxc3+ Ke2 Be1 Qh5 Bxf5 exf5
14 -85 5753 16162280 Qxg4
14 -85 8076 22534352 Qxg4 Bxc3+ Ke2 Bxa1 Qh5 Rd8 Nf2 Kf8 Qh8+ Ke7 f6+ Kd7 Qxd8+ Kxd8 Rh8+ Kd7 fxg7 Qb2+ Nd2 Nc6 g8=Q Nd4+ Ke3 Qc1
Amazing as Qxg4 is the only logical move, anything else loses.

As a chess player it took me a mere instant to see this.

IGM Regards,
Terry
Larry
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Re: Glaurung

Post by Larry »

As a chess player it took me a mere instant to see this.



I saw it more or less immediately too. The comps will grab wood on
the queen side while white's king side attack wins the game.
L
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Mark Uniacke
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Post by Mark Uniacke »

Well done for finding the correct move, yes it is pretty obvious to us humans, it is strange how a lot of computers struggle with this.

So Qxg4 is the correct move and WAS played in the game although black did not expect this move.

Now with these clues can you answer the 2nd question that was posed: 2) Who were the players involved in this game and the year?

Best wishes,
Mark
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Eelco de Groot
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Location: Groningen

Post by Eelco de Groot »

Mark Uniacke wrote:Well done for finding the correct move, yes it is pretty obvious to us humans, it is strange how a lot of computers struggle with this.

So Qxg4 is the correct move and WAS played in the game although black did not expect this move.

Now with these clues can you answer the 2nd question that was posed: 2) Who were the players involved in this game and the year?

Best wishes,
Mark
Hello Mark, with some nifty detectivework I found the following game from well-known anti-computer strategist Eduard Nemeth, played in 2002. It would be a big coincidence if another human player played the exact same variation, against a computer, around the same time and published it as a testposition somewhere else, so I think this must be the game?
Trainingstunde ! (30 Zugriffe)
geschrieben von: Eduard Nemeth (---.dip.t-dialin.net)
Datum: 31. Januar 2002 17:34


Die folgende Stellung habe ich unvollständig gelassen - erspielt gegen Fritz 7.0.0.6, Stufe = Blitz 15', P600:


[Event "Blitz 15'"]
[Site "Stuttgart"]
[Date "2002.01.31"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Player"]
[Black "Fritz 7"]
[ECO "C00"]
[Result "*"]

1. e4 {0} e6 {0} 2. h4 {(d4) 3} d5 {-0.06/12 37} 3. Nc3
{(e5) 2} d4 {-0.34/12 48} 4. Nb1 {1} Nf6 {-0.44/11 23}
5. d3 {(Sd5) 1} Bd6 {-0.50/12 26} 6. Nh3 {(Sf3) 2} e5
{-0.72/12 27} 7. g3 {(Sd2) 4} O-O {-0.78/11 40} 8. Bg5
{(Sg5) 1} h6 {-1.09/11 26} 9. f4 {(Ld2) 3} hxg5 {-1.91/9 7}
10. hxg5 {1} Ng4 {-2.72/9 14} 11. f5 {(Sf2) 11} Bb4+
{-3.44/9 26} 12. c3 {4} dxc3 {-2.97/10 19} 13. bxc3 {3} Qd4
{-3.09/11 21} *

Nun dachte ich hier mit Qxg4 fortzusetzen und dafür den Turm a1
aufgeben...aber wie gesagt, die Partie ist abgebrochen worden.

a) Lohnt sich diese Fortsetzung?
b) Soll weiss besser aufgeben?
c) Gibt es einen besseren Zug?

Wer Interesse und die Freude hat, kann 'mal versuchen diese Stellung
(Stufe beliebig) gegen Fritz 7 weiterzuspielen (die Züge könnte man
z.B. als Buch oder Partie eingeben).

Viel Spaß dabei, ich hoffe auf einige nette (gepostete) Partien!

Zum besseren Überblick, diese "hoffnungslose" (?) Stellung als Diagramm:

Player - Fritz 7.0.0.6
rnb2rk1/ppp2pp1/8/4pPP1/1b1qP1n1/2PP2PN/P7/RN1QKB1R w KQ -
This was quite a big hole in the Fritz 7 book I think? But then again, against computers it would work, what Fritz played... French is not an easy opening!

Regards, Eelco
Careful! Even moonlit dewdrops,
If you’re lured to watch,
Are a wall before the truth.

- Sogyo (18th century)
Eduard

Re: Position for Wednesday 8th Aug

Post by Eduard »

Mark Uniacke wrote:I thought I would start posting a regular series of interesting positions...

We start with quite an easy one from a few years ago now.

[fen]rnb2rk1/ppp2pp1/8/4pPP1/1b1qP1n1/2PP2PN/P7/RN1QKB1R w KQ - 0 1[/fen]

White to play, a couple of questions
1) What is white's best move and how long does it take your programs to find this move?

2) Who were the players involved in this game and the year?
Hello Mark!

This game I played against Fritz 7 in 2002. Funny win or? :)

Here is the full notation in PGN:

[Event "Blitz:3'+2""]
[Site "privat"]
[Date "2002.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Nemeth, Eduard"]
[Black "Fritz 7"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C00"]
[Annotator "Nemeth,Eduard"]
[PlyCount "63"]
[TimeControl "180+2"]

1. e4 {64MB, Fritz7.ctg, P600 0} e6 {0} 2. h4 {(d4) 3} d5 {-0.06/12 37} 3. Nc3
{(e5) 2} d4 {-0.34/12 48} 4. Nb1 {1} Nf6 {-0.44/11 23} 5. d3 {(Sd5) 1} Bd6 {
-0.50/12 26} 6. Nh3 {(Sf3) 2} e5 {-0.72/12 27} 7. g3 {(Sd2) 4} O-O {-0.78/11 40
} 8. Bg5 {(Sg5) 1} h6 {-1.09/11 26} 9. f4 {(Ld2) 3} hxg5 {-1.91/9 7} 10. hxg5 {
1} Ng4 {-2.72/9 14} 11. f5 {(Sf2) 11} Bb4+ {-3.44/9 26} 12. c3 {4} dxc3 {
-2.97/10 19} 13. bxc3 {3} Qd4 {-3.09/11 21} 14. Qxg4 {0} Bxc3+ {-3.50/9 5} 15.
Nxc3 {1} Qxc3+ {-3.25/10 10} 16. Ke2 {(Kf2) 1} Qxa1 {-3.28/8 5} 17. Qh4 {9}
Bxf5 {-1.66/9 11} 18. exf5 {(Sf2) 3} Qxa2+ {-1.81/9 28} 19. Ke1 {4} Qb1+ {
-1.31/9 21} 20. Kf2 {2} Qb6+ {-1.00/9 17} 21. Kg2 {5} Qc6+ {-0.47/10 17} 22.
Kg1 {3} f6 {0.00/11 24} 23. g6 {2} Re8 {0.47/12 17} 24. Nf2 {4} Kf8 {3.56/13 27
} 25. Qh8+ {4} Ke7 {1.97/12 0} 26. Qxg7+ {(Kd8) 5} Kd8 {4.22/13 21} 27. Rh8 {3}
Qd7 {4.16/11 14} 28. Qxf6+ {4} Qe7 {5.50/13 15} 29. Rxe8+ {3} Kxe8 {6.62/13 12}
30. Qh8+ {3} Kd7 {8.44/13 20} 31. f6 {4} Na6 {10.09/12 23} 32. Qxa8 {9} 1-0

PS: Thank you Harvey for your message.

My Best!
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Mark Uniacke
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Post by Mark Uniacke »

Eelco, very well done on some amazing detective work! :wink:

Also thanks to Eduard for a nice attacking game in the true spirit of human chess 8)

Now I will prepare the next position...

Best wishes,
Mark
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