A freestyle case: How would you react? And why?
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- Sebastian Boehme
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A freestyle case: How would you react? And why?
Hi chess fellows:
The following thing just happened to me in exactly this position:
[fen]1r4k1/R4pp1/4pn1p/1p2q3/p6P/P1PQN1P1/1P3P2/6K1 b - - 0 49[/fen]
My opponent played Nd5 and thus produced a mouse slip. Then he was like to me: "Oh my god - I made a mouse slip. What are we gonna do now? Maybe we gonna draw?"
I said to him this happens. The matter of fact here is that the position was about equal and he offered a draw already before, which I refused.
I refused because we both had 2/3 struggling for 3/4, so a draw was never an option to me.
Now question is: Should one accept this draw offer just out of politeness reasons or should one play on, because one never considered a draw in the whole game? (what I did)
I look forward to read your opinions about this.
Please keep it serious as it is a really serious topic.
Should one be polite after mouse slips or should one just play on?
I might add that I know this person quite a bit, but its not like we are close friends.
Have your thoughts,
Regards Sebastian
The following thing just happened to me in exactly this position:
[fen]1r4k1/R4pp1/4pn1p/1p2q3/p6P/P1PQN1P1/1P3P2/6K1 b - - 0 49[/fen]
My opponent played Nd5 and thus produced a mouse slip. Then he was like to me: "Oh my god - I made a mouse slip. What are we gonna do now? Maybe we gonna draw?"
I said to him this happens. The matter of fact here is that the position was about equal and he offered a draw already before, which I refused.
I refused because we both had 2/3 struggling for 3/4, so a draw was never an option to me.
Now question is: Should one accept this draw offer just out of politeness reasons or should one play on, because one never considered a draw in the whole game? (what I did)
I look forward to read your opinions about this.
Please keep it serious as it is a really serious topic.
Should one be polite after mouse slips or should one just play on?
I might add that I know this person quite a bit, but its not like we are close friends.
Have your thoughts,
Regards Sebastian
- Steve B
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HI Sebi
i edited your post to make the Fen Diagram show up
i eliminated the blank space between the [fen] and the notation
Best
Steve
i edited your post to make the Fen Diagram show up
i eliminated the blank space between the [fen] and the notation
Best
Steve
Last edited by Steve B on Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Steve B
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- Location: New York City USofA
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Re: A freestyle case: How would you react? And why?
Sebastian Boehme wrote:Hi chess fellows:
The following thing just happened to me in exactly this position:
[fen]1r4k1/R4pp1/4pn1p/1p2q3/p6P/P1PQN1P1/1P3P2/6K1 b - - 0 49[/fen]
My opponent played Nd5 and thus produced a mouse slip. Then he was like to me: "Oh my god - I made a mouse slip. What are we gonna do now? Maybe we gonna draw?"
I said to him this happens. The matter of fact here is that the position was about equal and he offered a draw already before, which I refused.
I refused because we both had 2/3 struggling for 3/4, so a draw was never an option to me.
Now question is: Should one accept this draw offer just out of politeness reasons or should one play on, because one never considered a draw in the whole game? (what I did)
I look forward to read your opinions about this.
Please keep it serious as it is a really serious topic.
Should one be polite after mouse slips or should one just play on?
I might add that I know this person quite a bit, but its not like we are close friends.
Have your thoughts,
Regards Sebastian
in my humble opinion...
IF this was in the Freestyle competition
then you should play on
the competition is for money and all players have paid an entrance fee to compete
to take a draw because someone is a friend where you would not take a draw otherwise is not fair to the others players and could effect the final results
freestyle means human operators must make the moves
mistakes can and will happen
its all part of the competition
Best Regards
Steve
Last edited by Steve B on Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Harvey Williamson
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Hi Sebi,
Its like asking for a draw after engine made a blunder/.Human as centaur has to be treated like an engine and end of the day its chess and mistakes do happen.
Win is a win final score counts they dont reduce half a point for mouse slips do they;)
GG all at freestyle and gl.
Best Regards
Suj
Its like asking for a draw after engine made a blunder/.Human as centaur has to be treated like an engine and end of the day its chess and mistakes do happen.
Win is a win final score counts they dont reduce half a point for mouse slips do they;)
GG all at freestyle and gl.
Best Regards
Suj
- Dylan Sharp
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:07 am
But that's the same as allowing take-backs... And I think they should be allowed. If so, then you may decide between accepting the take-back or not (I think that's easier than to deciding to a draw).Harvey Williamson wrote:but agree to shuffle pieces around so you get back to the position before Nd5 and then play on.
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About the issue, imagine this happened on the final game, and you need to win to win the freestyle, I don't think anybody on their right mind would accept the draw, and by regression a drawn game (Supposing that an enemy's mouse slip may secure your victory) may not be acceptable on any part of the freestyle, since that draw would be important at the end (thus, you may actually regret you accepted later on).
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The fact that a mouse-slip can be claimed without them actually happening may be the important factor of this discussion, though.
Some observations:
1) Maybe 75% of the time a player makes a slip, he says something like "oh crap" and resigns on the next move or after a few moves, or play on if was not fatal.
2) Most players will not give a draw in your situation, and they are formally in their good right not to do so. If you had given a draw here, you would have handicapped yourself compared to all these competitors.
3) Many players spend time and energy taking careful precautions to avoid making a mouse-slip, because they understand that it will be fatal 90% of the times. That is, they handicap themselves compared to players who do NOT take these precautions (by spending time double-checking etc.).
4) If you had given him a draw here, he would not have been punished for (maybe) not taking care to tell apart e4 and d5 on the chess-board (a common mistake, especially as black).
5) So, as I see it, your opponent chose not to spend time being careful, and paid the price. In a sense, NOT punishing him for that would have been unfair to all those players who do take time to be extra careful, probably including yourself.
Bottom line, I think it would have been WRONG to give him a draw here. He gets an advantage on the clock by not being careful, but he risks making slips also this way. That is HIS decision. I don't think he should have been given a "second chance".
1) Maybe 75% of the time a player makes a slip, he says something like "oh crap" and resigns on the next move or after a few moves, or play on if was not fatal.
2) Most players will not give a draw in your situation, and they are formally in their good right not to do so. If you had given a draw here, you would have handicapped yourself compared to all these competitors.
3) Many players spend time and energy taking careful precautions to avoid making a mouse-slip, because they understand that it will be fatal 90% of the times. That is, they handicap themselves compared to players who do NOT take these precautions (by spending time double-checking etc.).
4) If you had given him a draw here, he would not have been punished for (maybe) not taking care to tell apart e4 and d5 on the chess-board (a common mistake, especially as black).
5) So, as I see it, your opponent chose not to spend time being careful, and paid the price. In a sense, NOT punishing him for that would have been unfair to all those players who do take time to be extra careful, probably including yourself.
Bottom line, I think it would have been WRONG to give him a draw here. He gets an advantage on the clock by not being careful, but he risks making slips also this way. That is HIS decision. I don't think he should have been given a "second chance".
Hi,
Having made a mouseslip myself in 6th Freestyle qualifying which although not fatal to me blew my chances of winning the game and I ended up on 5 points where as 5.5pts may have qualified me for the finals ... As soon as I made the move and swore out loud I asked my opponent if a take back was possable, my opponent said he was not sure how to do it so we just continued. I just think we have to accept that mouseslips happen unless you are just letting the engine play and make the rule NO TAKE BACKS, then everyone knows where they stand from the start
Regards
Having made a mouseslip myself in 6th Freestyle qualifying which although not fatal to me blew my chances of winning the game and I ended up on 5 points where as 5.5pts may have qualified me for the finals ... As soon as I made the move and swore out loud I asked my opponent if a take back was possable, my opponent said he was not sure how to do it so we just continued. I just think we have to accept that mouseslips happen unless you are just letting the engine play and make the rule NO TAKE BACKS, then everyone knows where they stand from the start
Regards