Novag Obsidian vs Saitek Travel Champion 2100

sje · Post by **sje** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:53 pm

Search started. Symbolic predicts:
[-2.596/18/27:54.236/1,256,740,873/0] 40 Qd4 Qxd4 41 Rxd4 Re2 42 Rd8+ Rg8 43 Rd2 Rxd2 44 Bxd2 Kg7 45 Kg3 Rd8 46 Bc1 Rd1 47 Bb2 c1=Q 48 Bxc1 Rxc1

sje · Post by **sje** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:13 pm

sje wrote:Search started. Symbolic predicts:
[-2.596/18/27:54.236/1,256,740,873/0] 40 Qd4 Qxd4 41 Rxd4 Re2 42 Rd8+ Rg8 43 Rd2 Rxd2 44 Bxd2 Kg7 45 Kg3 Rd8 46 Bc1 Rd1 47 Bb2 c1=Q 48 Bxc1 Rxc1

It's getting worse:
[-3.111/21/2:12:55.521/6,327,366,262/1] 40 Qxc2 Re1 41 Qc4 Qb6 42 Qd4 Qxd4 43 Rxd4 Rxc1 44 Rd8+ Rg8 45 Rd2 Bc6 46 Re2 Re8 47 Rd2 Kg7 48 Kg3 Kf7 49 Kf2 Rc3 50 Kg1 Re1+ 51 Kh2

sje · Post by **sje** » Wed Dec 25, 2013 4:48 pm

[Event "Correspondence Game"]
[Site "http://hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=62613"]
[Date "2013.10.30"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Novag Obsidian"]
[Black "Saitek Travel Champion 2100"]
[Result "*"]

1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 a6 4 Ba4 Nf6 5 O-O Be7 6 Re1 b5 7 Bb3 O-O 8 c3 d6 9 h3
Na5 10 Bc2 c5 11 d4 cxd4 12 cxd4 Bb7 13 Nc3 Qc7 14 dxe5 dxe5 15 Nd5 Nxd5 16
exd5 Rad8 17 Rxe5 Nc4 18 Qd3 g6 19 Re1 Bf6 20 Bb3 Bxd5 21 Bxc4 bxc4 22 Qe2 c3
23 b3 c2 24 Ne5 Rfe8 25 f4 Bh4 26 Rf1 f6 27 Qg4 Qc5+ 28 Kh2 Qc3 29 Nxg6 Qxa1 30
Nxh4+ Kh8 31 Qh5 Be4 32 f5 Qe5+ 33 Rf4 Qd6 34 Qh6 Rd7 35 Qh5 Red8 36 Qe2 Re7 37
Qh5 Rg7 38 Qe2 Re8 39 Qc4 Bb7 40 Qd4 *

[fen]4r2k/1b4rp/p2q1p2/5P2/3Q1R1N/1P5P/P1p3PK/2B5 b - - 16 40[/fen]

sje · Post by **sje** » Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:45 pm

Looking bad...
[+4.023/24/2:54:53.154/10,303,898,422/24] 40... Qxd4 41 Rxd4 Re2 42 Rc4 Rexg2+ 43 Nxg2 Rxg2+ 44 Kh1 Re2+ 45 Kg1 Re1+ 46 Kf2 Rxc1 47 Ke3 Be4 48 Rc8+ Kg7 49 Rc7+ Kh6 50 Kxe4 Re1+ 51 Kd4 c1=Q 52 Rxc1 Rxc1 53 Ke4 Rc2

Wardy · Post by **Wardy** » Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:30 pm

Search just started........

Wardy · Post by **Wardy** » Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:32 pm

Qxd4 with a score of 2.7

Expectation is

Rxd4 Re2
Rd8

sje · Post by **sje** » Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:39 pm

Search started, at 8 ply in a few seconds with a -1.8 score with Rxd4.

sje · Post by **sje** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:51 am

Search ended a while ago.

[Event "Correspondence Game"]
[Site "http://hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=62613"]
[Date "2013.10.30"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Novag Obsidian"]
[Black "Saitek Travel Champion 2100"]
[Result "*"]

1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 a6 4 Ba4 Nf6 5 O-O Be7 6 Re1 b5 7 Bb3 O-O 8 c3 d6 9 h3
Na5 10 Bc2 c5 11 d4 cxd4 12 cxd4 Bb7 13 Nc3 Qc7 14 dxe5 dxe5 15 Nd5 Nxd5 16
exd5 Rad8 17 Rxe5 Nc4 18 Qd3 g6 19 Re1 Bf6 20 Bb3 Bxd5 21 Bxc4 bxc4 22 Qe2 c3
23 b3 c2 24 Ne5 Rfe8 25 f4 Bh4 26 Rf1 f6 27 Qg4 Qc5+ 28 Kh2 Qc3 29 Nxg6 Qxa1 30
Nxh4+ Kh8 31 Qh5 Be4 32 f5 Qe5+ 33 Rf4 Qd6 34 Qh6 Rd7 35 Qh5 Red8 36 Qe2 Re7 37
Qh5 Rg7 38 Qe2 Re8 39 Qc4 Bb7 40 Qd4 Qxd4 41 Rxd4 *

[fen]4r2k/1b4rp/p4p2/5P2/3R3N/1P5P/P1p3PK/2B5 b - - 0 41[/fen]

sje · Post by **sje** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:24 am

A while before the search ended, the Obsidian showed a -2.78 score at ply 13. After the search finished, there was no resignation so the machine needs to be beaten up some more.

Symbolic predicts the worst score so far:
[+4.528/24/3:22:26.460/11,857,388,276/22] 41... Re2 42 Rb4 Bd5 43 Rb8+ Rg8 44 Rxg8+ Kxg8 45 b4 Bxa2 46 Nf3 Bd5 47 Kg3 Bxf3 48 Kxf3 Re1 49 Bd2 c1=Q 50 Bxc1 Rxc1 51 g3 Rc4 52 g4 Rxb4

Wardy · Post by **Wardy** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:07 am

Search started.

Some computer programs needed a bad score for a few moves before resigning, may be the same for the Obsidian?

fourthirty · Post by **fourthirty** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:34 pm

Interesting game - thanks guys. I expected a closer match due to the similarities in specs between the two units. Perhaps the Obsidian's processor speed advantage is not a significant factor with the 24 hour time controls?

Wardy · Post by **Wardy** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:08 pm

The Obsidian is hampered by the maximum size of it's move stack, meaning that it's unable to fully utilise all the time available to it. That said at the speed of both machines there is very little change in the choice of moves after a few hours, they just can't penetrate the depths that a modern PC can get to in a fraction of a second. There is only one move so far in this game where the TC changed it's mind for the better with only 15 mins to go to the time control.

The TC has a far larger opening book, it was set to it's tournament book for this match, plus the Obsidian seems to have a more agressive style, which whilst entertaining for human play is perhaps less successful against a solid program.

All that being said we'd need to play a lot more games to really understand the relative strengths of the two machines.

I've been playing a lot of games during this match against my new Citrine, which an Obsidian with a larger book, and it's a great machine for practicing for human play. Every game I've played it's come out swinging and finding tricksy tactics in the most quiet looking positions. I currently lack the TC's solid defencive play but with each game I'm getting closer to taming this silicon beast.......

13 hours into it's search the TC is wanting to play Re2 with a score of 3.1 the continuation being

Rc4 Rgxg2
Nxg2

It's very nearly completed it's 12 ply search which is unusual at this elapsed time.

fourthirty · Post by **fourthirty** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:17 am

Wardy wrote:I've been playing a lot of games during this match against my new Citrine, which an Obsidian with a larger book, and it's a great machine for practicing for human play.

Thanks Paul. Glad to hear that you enjoy playing against the Citrine. I bid on one this summer on eBay, but was outbid at the last minute! I keep looking for a good deal via eBay or Craigslist.

I do have an Obsdian that I enjoy playing against - although I've never set it to 24 hour time controls! Never made my unit work that hard.

Wardy · Post by **Wardy** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:44 am

No change over night, the TC plays Re2 with the same score and evaluation.

[fen]7k/1b4rp/p4p2/5P2/3R3N/1P5P/P1p1r1PK/2B5 w - - 0 42[/fen]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 O-O 8. c3
d6 9. h3 Na5 10. Bc2 c5 11. d4 cxd4 12. cxd4 Bb7 13. Nc3 Qc7 14. dxe5 dxe5 15.
Nd5 Nxd5 16. exd5 Rad8 17. Rxe5 Nc4 18. Qd3 g6 19. Re1 Bf6 20. Bb3 Bxd5 21.
Bxc4 bxc4 22. Qe2 c3 23. b3 c2 24. Ne5 Rfe8 25. f4 Bh4 26. Rf1 f6 27. Qg4 Qc5+
28. Kh2 Qc3 29. Nxg6 Qxa1 30. Nxh4+ Kh8 31. Qh5 Be4 32. f5 Qe5+ 33. Rf4 Qd6 34.
Qh6 Rd7 35. Qh5 Red8 36. Qe2 Re7 37. Qh5 Rg7 38. Qe2 Re8 39. Qc4 Bb7 40. Qd4
Qxd4 41. Rxd4 Re2 *

sje · Post by **sje** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:45 am

Search started.

Symbolic predicts:
[-4.378/24/2:31:33.796/9,249,171,882/30] 42 Rc4 Bd5 43 Rc5 Rgxg2+ 44 Nxg2 Rxg2+ 45 Kh1 Rd2+ 46 Kg1 Rd1+ 47 Kf2 Rxc1 48 Ke3 Be4 49 Kxe4 Re1+ 50 Kd4 Rd1+ 51 Ke3 c1=Q+ 52 Rxc1 Rxc1 53 Kd4 Rh1 54 h4 h5 55 Kd5 Rxh4