Disappointed by Hiarcs Tournament Book !

[chess666]

Who played Re8 in 2013 please ? ( i speak about strong players of course )

Well informed players will not play again 18.Bb3 and so, you will rest with only 3 win with 18...f4 of course !

Your HB is not a rubbish and certainly the best book on the market ( Fritz Powerbook for example is just an automatical database book i can produce in few minutes ) BUT , on my side, i expected more , that's all !

Hope i will have interesting features in HCE for compensate

Kind regards

[Mark Uniacke]

The game was Traut (2420) - Domancich (2305) 0-1

What I find interesting is that White has played this line to the position before 18...f4 many times in correspondence yet never it seems over the board.

The line in general has a very poor outcome for White and it is surprising that it has been tried so many times in correspondence games, when White has better options earlier.

[chess666]

The game was Traut (2420) - Domancich (2305) 0-1

What I find interesting is that White has played this line to the position before 18...f4 many times in correspondence yet never it seems over the board.

The line in general has a very poor outcome for White and it is surprising that it has been tried so many times in correspondence games, when White has better options earlier.

Yes, i have the game ! Strange indeed at this level ( for example 19.f4 as played before by the ICCF World Champion Langeveld was better )
Perhaps they did not have yet access to ICCF database updated when they made crucial moves ( indeed, Mr Langeveld made important updates on archives AFTER this game and date of the end of game can be very different of date of the moves we are interested in correspondance games....)

Anyway, as you can see , only one game since 18...f4 was found !

[Mark Uniacke]

You may not of spotted it but there was one novelty added in this line as if to prove it is not a pure statistical book

After
18... f4 19.Nxe4 f5 20.Nc3 f3 21.Qe3 Ne5 22.Qf4 Qe8

[fen]r3qrk1/6bp/p2p4/3Pnp2/5Q2/1BN2p2/PPP2PPP/R4RK1 w - - 4 23[/fen]

Here 23.g3 has been played twice without success.

However, the Hiarcs14h (Source: Tournament in HCE) book has 23.Rfe1!? as a suggested novelty.

I am not sure this solves all White's problems especially in correspondence chess but it looks like a good practical alternative.

What is your view on 23.Rfe1!?

[chess666]

You may not of spotted it but there was one novelty added in this line as if to prove it is not a pure statistical book

After
18... f4 19.Nxe4 f5 20.Nc3 f3 21.Qe3 Ne5 22.Qf4 Qe8

[fen]r3qrk1/6bp/p2p4/3Pnp2/5Q2/1BN2p2/PPP2PPP/R4RK1 w - - 4 23[/fen]

Here 23.g3 has been played twice without success.

However, the Hiarcs14h (Source: Tournament in HCE) book has 23.Rfe1!? as a suggested novelty.

I am not sure this solves all White's problems especially in correspondence chess but it looks like a good practical alternative.

What is your view on 23.Rfe1!?

Hi Mark,

Here some very quick analysis ( 10 mn ) for your reference

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "?"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5 6.Ndb5 d6 7.Bg5 a6 8.Na3 b5 9.Bxf6 gxf6 10.Nd5 f5 11.Bd3 Be6 12.O-O Bxd5 13.exd5 Ne7 14.Nxb5 Bg7 15.Nc3 e4 16.Bc4 O-O 17.Qd2 Ng6 18.Bb3 f4 19.Nxe4 f5 20.Nc3 f3 21.Qe3 Ne5 22.Qf4 Qe8 23.Rfe1 Qh5 24.Qg3 ( 24.Re3 Bh6 25.Qg3+ Kh8 26.Rxe5 Rg8 27.Re6 Rxg3 28.fxg3 f2+ 29.Kxf2 Qxh2 30.Ne2 Rf8 31.Re1 Bd2 32.Rd1 f4 33.Rxd2 f3 34.Ke3 fxg2 35.Rd1 Rf1 36.c3 h5 ) 24...fxg2 25.Ne2 ( 25.Rxe5 dxe5 26.Re1 Kh8 27.Rxe5 Ra7 ) 25...Kh8 26.Nf4 Qh6 *

Happy new year

[chess666]

Hi,

I can see with pleasure the move 18...f4 is now quoted as the best in last H-reference book BUT it is yet quoted as bad in the new updated GM+ book which is a paradox, giving the fact it was played in top correspondence game

[Mark Uniacke]

The latest GM+ book now has this update, some updates from the huge human reference had not been applied to the GM+, they are now.

[chess666]

The latest GM+ book now has this update, some updates from the huge human reference had not been applied to the GM+, they are now.

Hi, my licence regarding H-reference and tournament books is finished OK !
BUT i have no longer access to GM+ book and i am a DEEP HCE owner ???

Thanks to solve please ( i have access to TB 6 no problem )

[Mark Uniacke]

GM+ book is back online now.

Next time please create a new topic as this is different to the thread topic. The best option though is to send an email.

[chess666]

Normally the move and line would of been added as I regularly adjust and add many book lines (often supplied by customers), but various things happened which meant I simply did not get around to updating that line.

It was updated a week or two ago and will appear in the next book.

Dear sir,

Finally, the playability for the move which win is 20% and 80% for the other because it was the best BEFORE !
So, you don't really beleive users ( i am sure your ICCF SIM assistant can verify what i say but i guess also he has no time for that...)
As i said above, what i underline is not your book is bad but it is statistical based and not very useful for a deep study of latest theory ( i have myself personal tree statistical oriented of the better games both over the board and correspondence as your GM+) and of course, i am very disapointed to not have an added value with some NT deeply analysed as i gave you above ...
As i bought Deep HCE too for my openings studies ( the move18...f4 is dubious in H-reference book by the way !!! ), it is almost for nothing . I just use the "players informations" for prepare against because i like better in HCE than CB12 BUT it is a lot of money for small things.

As i understand you don't have army of assistants for produce a REAL book, i hope however you will improve HCE , particularly for analysis features ( something like Deeep analysis in Fritz GUI or IDEA in Aquarium GUI would be welcome )

Well ! Your GUI satisfy many people and my requests are special i know

Happy new year to all

Note i forgot sorry : When your book helped Anand against Topalov, Hiarcs was the best engine ( with Rybka used by Topalov ) at the time and so, it was very useful for find some NT BUT now, i am not sure you use Houdini, Stockfish or Komodo for build your HB, hence my feeling about it !!!

Sorry but it is the good place for me to speak about books, particularly Hiarcs Book !
I did not place my money again in HB for the reasons above
You use Deep Hiarcs 14 for find NT but, unfortunatly, Hiarcs is NOW very far behind the programs i quoted and so, his ideas are not all good !!!

[Harvey Williamson]

Why do you think engine strength has a big bearing on book strength? The 2 are largely unrelated.

[Mark Uniacke]

chess666 has made some assumptions about how the book is produced which are completely wrong, the Hiarcs book has a multitude of inputs which mean the quality of the book is very high. I know that testing has shown it to be extremely strong over a great width of variations not seen in cooked books which are narrow and focused purely on computer play.

Some of the world's best chess players and computer experts like Larry Kaufman appreciate the quality of the Hiarcs tournament book.

[chess666]

Why do you think engine strength has a big bearing on book strength? The 2 are largely unrelated.

Most of the NT ( i don't say ALL but....) i can find in several very popular books are just found in few seconds by engines i quoted above !

If Larry appreciate the book, it is certainly because he has many new ideas found by engines ( Larry's book are indeed well known for a great work by engines CPU time with IDeA ....)

What i underline is a book made only with OTB games is not useful as you have databases for that ! So, the most important part must be made by engines ( like Larry did in his famous repertoire books ! ) in order to try to find some good NT if possible ???
I know it is hard to find real "NT" but, as i found some NT in HB i refuted simply with the engines quoted above ( and some advanced chess work ), i have simply the feeling you use only Hiarcs for try to improve your book ?


And beleive me or not, i don't like to bash the HB because, if i invested 130 Euros for that, it was because i expected much of it !!!

[Harvey Williamson]

Why do you think engine strength has a big bearing on book strength? The 2 are largely unrelated.

Most of the NT ( i don't say ALL but....) i can find in several very popular books are just found in few seconds by engines i quoted above !

If Larry appreciate the book, it is certainly because he has many new ideas found by engines ( Larry's book are indeed well known for a great work by engines CPU time with IDeA ....)

What i underline is a book made only with OTB games is not useful as you have databases for that ! So, the most important part must be made by engines ( like Larry did in his books ! ) in order to try rto find some good NT if possible ???
I know it is hard to find real "NT" but, as i found some NT in HB i refuted simply with the engines quoted above ( and some Advanced chess work ), i have simply the feeling you use only Hiarcs for try to improve your book ?

And beleive me or not, i would not like to bash the HB because, if i invested 130 Euros for that, it was because i expected much of it !!!

The Hiarcs book subscription costs nowhere close to 130 Euros for 1 year. Take a look here http://www.hiarcs.com/opening-books.htm

There are millions of Computer games used to help create the Hiarcs book along with the best human games. I do not know of any engine books Larry has published although he has published some really good books for humans to use. His latest on the Grunfeld is excellent.

[chess666]

You don't know the complete répertoires wrote by Larry in 2003 and 2012 ?

I paid 130 Euros because i bought also Deep HCE ....