Which version is best for me?

[DimEyeChessGuy]

Hey folks.
I'm new to the forum.. I'm an old dude (51) that is trying to get back in to chess after about 15 years. I own an M1 MBP 14" that I absolutely love and am looking for some good database software for trying to improve, make opening repertoire, etc.

I've come across Hiarcs and its database as really the only solution for native M1 mac users (is this correct? Am I missing anything else?)

To that end, I see there are 3 versions... which would you folks recommend for someone like myself and my specific setup?

Thanks,
DimEye (Tom)

[herO]

Hey folks.
I'm new to the forum.. I'm an old dude (51) that is trying to get back in to chess after about 15 years. I own an M1 MBP 14" that I absolutely love and am looking for some good database software for trying to improve, make opening repertoire, etc.

I've come across Hiarcs and its database as really the only solution for native M1 mac users (is this correct? Am I missing anything else?)

To that end, I see there are 3 versions... which would you folks recommend for someone like myself and my specific setup?

Thanks,
DimEye (Tom)

Hi DimEyeChessGuy , I would recommend you the multi-core version of Hiarcs Chess Explorer. You won't need the premium version. You're using the powerful M1 hardware, so it's definitely worth using the multi-core version to get the most out of your hardware. You will also get 1,000GB online endgame tablebases with multi-core version and GM+ online book.

[DimEyeChessGuy]

Thank you for this info. Is the software trulynative to the M1’s?

I only ask because I’ve read a few posts on this forum today indicating it isn’t?

[DimEyeChessGuy]

Actually on the issue of it being native to M1... it is not. This is very disappointing considering that Hiarcs advertises that it is. Unless I'm sorely missing something.

I made the purchase and its running on Rosetta. Not sure I'll be keeping this on principle alone. Please let me know if I'm missing something however. I'll happily admit that I'm wrong.

As an aside, anyone own this on an M1 machine? How does it perform considering the emulation layer?

DECG

[EloDeficit]

For an Apple Silicon chess app with database and opening book support (it can even create opening books from your PGN repertoire), take a look at Chess Lab (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/chess-lab ... 7888?mt=12). For something like $7, it is very functional. You can't install your own engines. It just uses Stockfish (currently version 16). Its interface also takes some getting used to. However, I found it to be a great deal for the price, alone for the ability to create opening books from your games.

[Mark Uniacke]

HCE Pro 1.2 is not native Apple Silicon code but runs on M1/M2 etc under Rosetta2 without issue and runs about as fast as the fastest Intel chips perhaps faster. The HCE Pro software is already very fast at all database operations so the benefit from native M1/M2 code would be very minor.

I was not aware we mention anywhere that our code is native Apple Silicon, I will update the FAQ to explicitly state it is not and runs M1/M2 under Rosetta2. I do not notice a difference between the operation on my M1 Mac and i9 iMac.

The Rosetta2 translation layer is very efficient and CPU bound code achieves about 80% of the performance compared to native M1, for i/o bound operations the difference is negligible. In the future I hope to provide the engines as a universal binary with Apple Silicon but first there is some assembly code to be converted to M1.

[DimEyeChessGuy]

HCE Pro 1.2 is not native Apple Silicon code but runs on M1/M2 etc under Rosetta2 without issue and runs about as fast as the fastest Intel chips perhaps faster. The HCE Pro software is already very fast at all database operations so the benefit from native M1/M2 code would be very minor.

I was not aware we mention anywhere that our code is native Apple Silicon, I will update the FAQ to explicitly state it is not and runs M1/M2 under Rosetta2. I do not notice a difference between the operation on my M1 Mac and i9 iMac.

The Rosetta2 translation layer is very efficient and CPU bound code achieves about 80% of the performance compared to native M1, for i/o bound operations the difference is negligible. In the future I hope to provide the engines as a universal binary with Apple Silicon but first there is some assembly code to be converted to M1.

Hey Mark... Thank you for replying.
I did read the faq before buying and the faq kinda 'got me'. https://www.hiarcs.com/mac-chess-explor ... .html#FAQ6



Its probably my bad for assuming that supports M1 and M1 Pro chips meant native. So changing that will definitely be helpful to some poor fool such as myself in the future. $119 for a non-native app is pretty steep for someone like me.

You mentioned that the database functionality was such that there is no real gain on the M1's... however, what about analysis with Hiarcs engine? I also would think that you're charging this price mainly for the engine vs. the database features. I've played around with the database stuff tonight and, while it's pretty good, I'm not sure that it's $120 good...

Of course, this is jut my first impression and I don't know what I don't know. I'm not trying to be nasty at all... But this has left a fairly bad taste in my mouth...

DECG

[Mark Uniacke]

It does support M1 Macs as mac OS runs Rosetta2 and the software is fully functional on M1 Macs. In any case I have updated the website to make that explicit.

As you requested by email your order has been cancelled and a full refund was processed.

[SchuBi]

You mentioned that the database functionality was such that there is no real gain on the M1's... however, what about analysis with Hiarcs engine? I also would think that you're charging this price mainly for the engine vs. the database features. I've played around with the database stuff tonight and, while it's pretty good, I'm not sure that it's $120 good...

I’m using HCE and HCE Pro the last 10 years (first on Intelmacss, since last year i own an MacBbook Pro M1with an M1 Pro).
HCE Pro works faster than Chessbase.The fact that HCE Pro runs not native fon M1 Macs is not a dealbreaker.
HCE Pro Database runs on my iMac (i9, 3,6 Ghz) and on my MacBook Pro (M1 Pro 10 Core, 3, Ghz). HCE Pro Database is faster on the MacBook Pro.
Most chess-engines ( Stockfish, Dragon, Koivistop, Berserk) have two versions - Intel and Apple Silicon (M1, M2)
You can install the Apple Silicon version on your MacBook.
I'm a satisfied customer of Hiarcs since 2007.

[TimC]

HCE Pro 1.2 is not native Apple Silicon code but runs on M1/M2 etc under Rosetta2 without issue and runs about as fast as the fastest Intel chips perhaps faster. The HCE Pro software is already very fast at all database operations so the benefit from native M1/M2 code would be very minor.

I was not aware we mention anywhere that our code is native Apple Silicon, I will update the FAQ to explicitly state it is not and runs M1/M2 under Rosetta2. I do not notice a difference between the operation on my M1 Mac and i9 iMac.

The Rosetta2 translation layer is very efficient and CPU bound code achieves about 80% of the performance compared to native M1, for i/o bound operations the difference is negligible. In the future I hope to provide the engines as a universal binary with Apple Silicon but first there is some assembly code to be converted to M1.

Hey Mark... Thank you for replying.
I did read the faq before buying and the faq kinda 'got me'. https://www.hiarcs.com/mac-chess-explor ... .html#FAQ6



Its probably my bad for assuming that supports M1 and M1 Pro chips meant native. So changing that will definitely be helpful to some poor fool such as myself in the future. $119 for a non-native app is pretty steep for someone like me.

You mentioned that the database functionality was such that there is no real gain on the M1's... however, what about analysis with Hiarcs engine? I also would think that you're charging this price mainly for the engine vs. the database features. I've played around with the database stuff tonight and, while it's pretty good, I'm not sure that it's $120 good...

Of course, this is jut my first impression and I don't know what I don't know. I'm not trying to be nasty at all... But this has left a fairly bad taste in my mouth...

DECG

Wow, good luck finding a "native" chess database app. $120 is not very much compared to what Chessbase charges (and which is next to impossible to run on an M1) and doesn't come with a very highly regarded engine. I wish you all the luck in the world on this. Let all of us know what, if anything, you do find. Thanks!!

[DimEyeChessGuy]

It does support M1 Macs as mac OS runs Rosetta2 and the software is fully functional on M1 Macs. In any case I have updated the website to make that explicit.

As you requested by email your order has been cancelled and a full refund was processed.

Thank you Mark... I just need to figure stuff out. I may re-buy (it seems that this may be my only/best choice for what I'm doing).

Again, I don't know what I don't know so I just need to figure it out.

DECG

[DimEyeChessGuy]

HCE Pro 1.2 is not native Apple Silicon code but runs on M1/M2 etc under Rosetta2 without issue and runs about as fast as the fastest Intel chips perhaps faster. The HCE Pro software is already very fast at all database operations so the benefit from native M1/M2 code would be very minor.

I was not aware we mention anywhere that our code is native Apple Silicon, I will update the FAQ to explicitly state it is not and runs M1/M2 under Rosetta2. I do not notice a difference between the operation on my M1 Mac and i9 iMac.

The Rosetta2 translation layer is very efficient and CPU bound code achieves about 80% of the performance compared to native M1, for i/o bound operations the difference is negligible. In the future I hope to provide the engines as a universal binary with Apple Silicon but first there is some assembly code to be converted to M1.

Hey Mark... Thank you for replying.
I did read the faq before buying and the faq kinda 'got me'. https://www.hiarcs.com/mac-chess-explor ... .html#FAQ6



Its probably my bad for assuming that supports M1 and M1 Pro chips meant native. So changing that will definitely be helpful to some poor fool such as myself in the future. $119 for a non-native app is pretty steep for someone like me.

You mentioned that the database functionality was such that there is no real gain on the M1's... however, what about analysis with Hiarcs engine? I also would think that you're charging this price mainly for the engine vs. the database features. I've played around with the database stuff tonight and, while it's pretty good, I'm not sure that it's $120 good...

Of course, this is jut my first impression and I don't know what I don't know. I'm not trying to be nasty at all... But this has left a fairly bad taste in my mouth...

DECG

Wow, good luck finding a "native" chess database app. $120 is not very much compared to what Chessbase charges (and which is next to impossible to run on an M1) and doesn't come with a very highly regarded engine. I wish you all the luck in the world on this. Let all of us know what, if anything, you do find. Thanks!!

I don't know what is so 'wow' about not knowing something, asking questions and trying to figure stuff out... I guess you were born knowing all of this stuff. I didn't get that honor.

Maybe I'll write a "native" chess database app (I certainly have that skillset - in spite of being ignorant of what is currently available). Or maybe I'll just figure stuff out and re-buy Hiarcs. The future has so many possibilities in spite of this weird 'wow' moment for you.

DECG

[SchuBi]

Maybe I'll write a "native" chess database app (I certainly have that skillset - in spite of being ignorant of what is currently available).

Good luck on that road

[DimEyeChessGuy]

Maybe I'll write a "native" chess database app (I certainly have that skillset - in spite of being ignorant of what is currently available).

Good luck on that road

Why would I need luck? I think we are just being
goofy now. I’ll figure it out. Nobody including me wants to reinvent the wheel.

I appreciate all the helpful comments and Marks service. It was actually great and that made a really good impression on me. A little more research…

[herO]

Maybe I'll write a "native" chess database app (I certainly have that skillset - in spite of being ignorant of what is currently available).

Good luck on that road

Why would I need luck? I think we are just being
goofy now. I’ll figure it out. Nobody including me wants to reinvent the wheel.

I appreciate all the helpful comments and Marks service. It was actually great and that made a really good impression on me. A little more research…

I use the Windows platform, but as far as I know, Hiarcs Chess Explorer is a native iOS app. It definitely doesn't emulate the app in Wine as is the case with Chessbase's chess program.

I assume you are bothered that Hiarcs is not optimized for the new kind of hardware. But that doesn't mean that Hiarcs is not a native application. It's just not optimized for the M1 chipset. But that doesn't mean you can't use other chess engines that use that chipset. If you install Stockfish, which supports the M1 chipset, then Stockfish will take full advantage of that chipset even when running in Hiarcs Chess Explorer. It would be good if the Hiarcs program itself and the Hiarcs engine also supported this chipset, but I don't think it's such a drastic disadvantage.