Collector's Corner... On Siscys/Saitek Wood

Post by **Steve B** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:20 am

As is well known Siscys/Saitek released three sizes of wooden boards
Small Wood-Astral,Virtuoso and Capella
Medium Wood-Stratos,Corona and President
Big Wood-Leonardo,Galileo and Renaissance

In an effort to cash in on the recent "Wood" buying frenzy on Ebay
i though it best to test the small wooden boards first before selling them

i pit the Excalibur Mirage against the Astral,Virtuoso and Capella
each game was 1 Min Avg and Mirage had black in all games

First Up is the game Vs Astral
the Astral was released in 1986 and had the same program and hardware as the Conquistador
Selective Search shows a rating of 1520
The Wiki shows the Mirage at 1780

As can be expected the Mirage crushes the Astral but only in the end game
during the middle game Astral surprisingly played on Par with the Mirage

[Date "2012.4.15"]
[White "Saitek Astral"]
[Black "Excalibur Mirage(Marble)"]
[Time Control "1 Min.Avg."]
[Result "0-1"]

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.h3 e5 7.Bb5+
Bd7
8.Bxd7+ Nbxd7 9.Ndb5 Qa5 10.b4 Qxb4 11.Nc7+ Kd8 12.Nxa8 Qxc3+
13.Bd2 Qc8
14.O-O Nxe4 15.Ba5+ b6 16.Nxb6 axb6 17.Bb4 Qc4 18.a3 Ndc5
19.Bxc5 bxc5
20.Qf3 Qxc2 21.Qxf7 Kc8 22.Rfb1 Qxf2+ 23.Qxf2 Nxf2
24.Kxf2 Kc7 25.a4 e4 26.a5 Bg7 27.Ra3 Bd4+ 28.Ke1 Rb8 29.Rxb8
Kxb8
30.Ke2 Ka7 31.Rb3 Be5 32.Rb6 Bf4 33.Rb3 Ka6 34.g3 Be5 35.Ra3 d5
36.h4
Bc7 37.Rc3 Bd6 38.g4 d4 39.Ra3 Bc7 40.Ra1 Bxa5 41.Rf1 Bb6 42.Rf7
c4
43.Rxh7 d3+ 44.Kd2 e3+ 45.Kc3 Bd4+ 46.Kxd4 d2 47.Kxe3 d1=Q 48.g5
c3
49.Rc7 c2 50.Rc8 c1=Q+ 51.Rxc1 Qxc1+ *

FINAL POSITION
[fen]8/8/k5p1/6P1/7P/4K3/8/2q5 w - - 0 52[/fen]

I resigned for Astral here..its hopeless

Next Up.. Virtuoso Regards
Steve

SirDave · Post by **SirDave** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:21 pm

Steve, the Luif site describes the Astral as having a wood veneer while the Capella (which looks much alike) is said to have plastic with wood pieces. Does the Capella appear to you to have veneer or plastic?

Post by **Steve B** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:47 pm

SirDave wrote:Steve, the Luif site describes the Astral as having a wood veneer while the Capella (which looks much alike) is said to have plastic with wood pieces. Does the Capella appear to you to have veneer or plastic?

The Capella is wooden just like the Astral
that is to say..the border around the playing surface is wooden
the pressure sensitive playing surface itself is plastic
same is true for the Virtuoso..Wooden Border..plastic playing surface
All three were advertised by the company to be wooden computers

Scisys Described the Astral as a "Beautiful Wooden Chess Computer"
for the Virtuoso and Capella Saitek used the description
"Elegantly Crafted Wooden Chess Computer"
also they all have wooden pieces..the same wooden pieces in fact

the Color of Capella's wood is a bit lighter then the Astral and Virtuoso's which are both a deeper and darker looking wood
perhaps that's why Tom described it that way?

Wooden Trio Regards
Steve

Post by **Steve B** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:39 am

Next up is the Virtuoso..
Released in 1992 the Wiki shows an Elo for it of 1897

In The Game..
Both computers are Out Of Book by move 3 due to Virtuoso's unusual book move 2.Nc3 in the Sicilian
Mirage misses a Win in the Middle game and then Virtuoso returns the favor
Mirage does come up with a surprising Q sac on move 35 but cannot follow through
the game ends drawn by perpetual

[Date "2012.4.16"]
[White "Saitek Virtuoso"]
[Black "Excalibur Mirage(Marble)"]
[Time Control 1 Min.Avg-]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]

1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3 Nf6 4.Bg2 d6 5.d3 g6 6.Nf3 Bg7 7.O-O O-O 8.Be3
Qb6 9.Rb1 Qa5 10.a3 Bg4 11.h3 Be6 12.Re1 Rac8 13.Bf4 Nd4 14.Nxd4 cxd4
15.Ne2 Nd7 16.Rc1 Qb5 17.b3 Qa5 18.a4 Qh5 19.g4 Qc5 20.Bg3 Ne5 21.Nf4
Bh6 22.Qe2 Qc3 23.Bh1 Rfe8 24.Bh2 Rc5 25.Nxe6 fxe6 26.f4 Nc6 27.g5 Bg7
28.Qg4 e5 29.Qe6+ Kh8 30.Rf1 exf4 31.Bxf4 Rf8 32.Bg3 Rxg5 33.Kh2 Rxf1
34.Rxf1 Qxc2+ 35.Rf2 Qxf2+ 36.Bxf2 Be5+ 37.Bg3 Rxg3 38.Bg2 Rxd3+ 39.Kg1
Kg7 40.b4 Rd1+ 41.Kf2 Rd2+ 42.Kg1 Bf6 43.b5 Na5 44.Bf1 d3 45.Qd5 Be5
46.Bxd3 e6 47.Qxe6 Bd4+ 48.Kf1 Rxd3 49.Qe7+ Kh6 50.Qh4+ Kg7 51.Qe7+ Kh6
52.Qh4+ Kg7 53.Qe7+ 1/2-1/2

FINAL POSITION
[fen]8/pp2Q1kp/3p2p1/nP6/P2bP3/3r3P/8/5K2 w - - 0 53[/fen]

Capella on Deck Regards
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10261668@N ... 922172552/
Steve

Post by **Steve B** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:35 am

The Capella is rated 1848 by Selective Search
Interestingly .. SS rated the Astral and Capella but not the Virtuoso

Both computers were Out Of Book after 4 moves
Mirage wins a P early on but it allows the Capella's R to penetrate its Q side
eventually Capella wins back the P and creates a passed QP
Mirage must give up a Piece to prevent Promotion and the game is lost from here
a nicely played game by the little Capella

[Date "2012.4.17"]
[White "Saitek Capella"]
[Black "Excalibur Mirage(Marble)"]
[Time Control "1 Min.Avg."]
[Result "1-0*"]

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bg5 Nbd7 4.Nf3 e6 5.e3 Bb4 6.Bd3 O-O 7.O-O h6 8.Bh4
c5 9.a3 Bxc3 10.bxc3 c4 11.Be2 Qa5 12.Qe1 g5 13.Bg3 Ne4 14.h4 Qxc3
15.Qxc3 Nxc3 16.Rfe1 Ne4 17.Bc7 b6 18.hxg5 hxg5 19.Bh2 Kg7 20.Ne5 Rh8
21.Bf3 Ndf6 22.Ng4 Nxg4 23.Bxg4 Bd7 24.f3 Nf6 25.Be5 Ba4 26.c3 Rh6
27.Kf2 Rah8 28.e4 dxe4 29.fxe4 Rh4 30.Bf3 Bc2 31.Ke3 a5 32.d5 exd5
33.exd5 Bf5 34.d6 Re8 35.Kf2 Rd8 36.Rad1 Kg6 37.Kg1 Bc2 38.Rd2 Bf5
39.Rb2 Nd7 40.Bd4 Nc5 41.Rxb6 Ne6 42.Bf2 Rh7 43.Bg3 Nc5 44.Rc6 Nd3
45.Re8 Rh8 46.Rxd8 Rxd8 47.Rxc4 Kf6 48.Rd4 Nc1 49.c4 Nb3 50.Rd1 Be6
51.Bd5 Nc5 52.Bxe6 Kxe6 53.Re1+ Kf6 54.Re5 Nb7 55.c5 Nxd6 56.cxd6 Rxd6
57.Rxa5 Rd3 58.Kh2 Kg6 59.Ra7 f5 60.a4 f4 61.Be1 Re3 62.Bf2 Rd3 63.g4
Rf3 64.Kg2 Rd3 65.a5 Ra3 66.Ra8 Kf6 67.a6 Kg7 68.a7 f3+ 69.Kg3 Kf6
70.Rf8+ Ke5 71.a8=Q Rxa8 72.Rxa8 Ke4 73.Re8+ Kd5 74.Be3 f2 75.Kxf2 Kd6
76.Bxg5 *

FINAL POSITION

[fen]4R3/8/3k4/6B1/6P1/8/5K2/8 w - - 0 76[/fen]

Mirage posted a -9.9 here ..game over man

Well all three "Small Wood" Saitek's seem to be still working fine
let see how the "Medium Wood" Saitek's are holding up

Stratos At Bat Regards
Steve

SirDave · Post by **SirDave** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:07 pm

Steve, what would fit closest to the description of a 'small wood with LCD' board? Or is there such a thing?

Post by **Steve B** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:26 pm

Interesting Question Dave

Not many smaller, wooden with display computers were made

i wont consider smaller computers made of wood with a display where the board is not used for move input and only the keypad
for example the Fidelity CC1 and CC3 are made of wood ,are small but the attached board does nothing and is just for show
another example of this would be the East German RFT SC1

First computers that leap to mind would be the Fidelity Champion Sensory Chess Challenger series and all of its Incarnations including the Super 9 Deluxe
they came in this type of housing:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10261668@N ... 0922170604

The Mephisto Academy and Monte Carlo series are iffy in that they border on small to medium in size
if we say the Mephisto Exclusive board fits into the Medium category then i think we can place the Academy-MC's into the small category

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10261668@N ... 0922171154

we know Saitek never made a small wooden board with display..

Moving to Novag ..all i can think of is the Citrine which is their smallest wooden display board..much smaller then the Super Experts but it might be considered medium in size as well..of course here the display screen is attached by cable

CXG made the 3008.. much smaller then their Sphinx 40 and 50

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10261668@N ... 923816793/

I'll try to think of some more and post them

Size Challenged Regards
Steve

Post by **Steve B** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:09 am

We now enter the realm of Middle Earth where the Wood For The Medium Wooden Saitek's were harvested...

The 1987 Stratos had a pressure sensory, 16 Led board and a split-screen Lcd display
it was described by Saitek as an "Attractive Wooden Chess Computer"
Kasparov is quoted as saying...
"Stratos offers a state of the art program.
Strength and beauty with added features which are both instructive and entertaining"

it was rated 1824 by Selective Search

In The Game ...Mirage was Out Of Book after 4 moves,Stratos after 8 moves
A double edged game with the Stratos having a N for 3p's as early as move 17
it wins back a P at move 30 and has a won game.. which it manages to convert into a lost game by an errant Knight foray on move 45
Mirage has a R+4P Vs R+3P advantage in the endgame.. which both sides proceed to butcher relentlessly
not surprising really as the Mirage only gets to 6 ply in 60 seconds and Stratos only 5
Stratos is the last to blunder and the Mirage limps to the bank to cash in the win

[Date "2012.4.18"]
[White "Saitek Stratos"]
[Black "Excalibur Mirage(Marble)"]
[Time Control "1Min.Avg."]
[Result "0-1"]

1.e4 c5 2.c3 Nf6 3.e5 Nd5 4.d4 cxd4 5.Qxd4 e6 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Qe4 f5 8.Qe2
Be7 9.c4 Ndb4 10.Nc3 O-O 11.a3 Qa5 12.Bf4 Na6 13.Qd1 Nc7 14.Be2 Qb6
15.c5 Qa5 16.b4 Nxb4 17.axb4 Qxb4 18.Bd2 Qxc5 19.Na4 Qd5 20.Rc1 Nb5
21.O-O Nd4 22.Bc3 Nxe2+ 23.Qxe2 b5 24.Nb2 b4 25.Bd4 a5 26.Rfd1 Ba6
27.Qd2 b3 28.Bc3 Qxd2 29.Rxd2 Ra7 30.Bxa5 Bb5 31.Bc3 Ra2 32.Rdd1 Bc6
33.Nd4 Bd5 34.Nd3 Rfa8 35.Bb4 b2 36.Rb1 Bxb4 37.Nxb4 Be4 38.Nxa2 Rxa2
39.Nb3 Bxb1 40.Rxb1 Kf7 41.f4 Ke7 42.Kf2 d6 43.Nd4 Kd7
44.exd6 Kxd6 45.Ke2 Kd5 46.Nb5 Kc4 47.Kd2 Kxb5 48.Kc3 Ra3+ 49.Kxb2 Re3
50.Kc1+ Kc6 51.Kd2 Ra3 52.Rb2 Kc5 53.Ke2 h6 54.Rb7 g5
55.Re7 Ra2+ 56.Kf3 Kd6 57.Rh7 Ra3+
58.Ke2 gxf4 59.Rxh6 Re3+ 60.Kf2 Rc3 61.Rh7 Rc2+ 62.Kf3 e5 63.Rh6+ Kd5
64.Rh7 Rc3+ 65.Ke2 e4 66.Rd7+ Ke6 67.Ra7 Rc2+ 68.Kf1 f3
69.gxf3 e3 70.Ra3 f4 71.Ra6+ Kd5 72.Ra5+ Kc6 73.Ra6+ Kb5 74.Rf6 Rf2+
75.Ke1 Rxf3 76.Rf7 Rf2 77.h4 f3 78.h5 Kc4 79.h6 Kd3 80.h7
Rh2 81.Rxf3 Rxh7 82.Rf8 Rh1+ 83.Rf1 Rxf1+ 84.Kxf1 Kd2 *

Final Position

[fen]8/8/8/8/8/4p3/3k4/5K2 w - - 0 85[/fen]

Stratos was showing -9.87 Here

Corona Rising Regards
Steve

rlsuth · Post by **rlsuth** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:25 pm

This thread caused me to get the only two computers I own out of the basement: Boris vs CC7. A testament to their quality that they still work after 37 years!

I'd never used the Boris before so I had to laugh when, in response to CC7's opening move of 1. d4 Boris replied: I didn't see that coming...

LOL

Post by **Steve B** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:30 pm

rlsuth wrote:This thread caused me to get the only two computers I own out of the basement: Boris vs CC7. A testament to their quality that they still work after 37 years!

I'd never used the Boris before so I had to laugh when, in response to CC7's opening move of 1. d4 Boris replied: I didn't see that coming...

LOL

Glad your interest in the oldies has been re-kindled
Yes it is amazing that these masterpieces still work
can you Imagine one of today's high-tech gizmo's (Iphone ,Ipad,Ipatch,Knee Pad..Etc.etc.)working 37 years from now?
how about 7 years from now?

LOL Regards
Steve

ricard60 · Post by **ricard60** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:47 am

rlsuth wrote:This thread caused me to get the only two computers I own out of the basement: Boris vs CC7. A testament to their quality that they still work after 37 years!

I'd never used the Boris before so I had to laugh when, in response to CC7's opening move of 1. d4 Boris replied: I didn't see that coming...

LOL

But sometimes Boris replied "are you David Levy".

Boris is the king regards
Ricardo.

Post by **Steve B** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:55 am

Finally we come to the Corona
released in 1988 it had an auto-sensory, 64 Led board and a split-screen Lcd display
Like the Stratos, Saitek described it as
"An Attractive wooden chess computer"
Kasparov had this to say...
"Corona's Blitz board is a joy to use.
With its strength and its ease of use,Corona will become a Classic"

Selective Search rates it the same as Stratos...1824

In The Game both computers were Out Of Book after 4 moves
there is an early exchange of Q's and both sides manage not to 0-0
both computers play evenly in the middle game but once again the extra-ply
the Mirage achieves over the Saitek in the endgame decides the issue

[Date "2012.4.19"]
[White "Saitek Corona"]
[Black "Excalibur Mirage(Marble)"]
[Time Control "1 Min.Avg."]
[Result "0-1"]

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nd7 5.Ng5 h6 6.Ne6 Qa5+ 7.Bd2
Qb6
8.Nxf8 Nxf8 9.Bc3 Nf6 10.Nf3 Bg4 11.Be2 Ne6 12.a4 Bxf3 13.Bxf3
Rd8 14.a5
Qb5 15.a6 b6 16.Qd3 Nxd4 17.Bxd4 Qxd3 18.Bxc6+ Kf8 19.cxd3 Rxd4
20.Ke2
e5 21.Ra4 Rd6 22.Bb7 Ke7 23.f4 exf4 24.Rxf4 Rhd8 25.Rd1 Ke6
26.Rc4 Ke5
27.Rc3 Rd4 28.Re1 Kf5 29.Kd2 h5 30.Re7 Kg6 31.Bc6 Nd7 32.Ke3 Rd6
33.Bb5 Kf6 34.Re4 Ne5 35.h3 Rd5 36.Rb4 Kg5 37.d4 Ng6
38.Rc7 Nh4 39.g4 hxg4 40.hxg4 Kxg4 41.Rxa7 Nf5+ 42.Kf2 f6 43.Bc4
Rxd4
44.Be2+ Kf4 45.Rxb6 Re8 46.Bf1 Rd2+ 47.Kg1 Re1 48.Rb4+ Kf3
49.Rb3+ Ne3 50.Rxe3+ Rxe3
51.Rc7 Re1 52.Rc3+ Kf4 53.Rc4+ Ke5 54.Rc7 Ra1 55.a7 Rxb2 56.Rxg7
Rba2
57.Re7+ Kd6 58.a8=Q Rxa8 59.Rf7 Ke6 60.Rb7 R8a2 61.Rb6+ Kf5
62.Rb5+ Kg6
63.Rb8 Re1 64.Rb4 Kg5 65.Rb3 f5 66.Rf3 f4
67.Rh3 Kg4 68.Rh6 Raa1 69.Kf2 Rxf1+ 70.Ke2 f3+ *

FINAL POSITION
[fen]8/8/7R/8/6k1/5p2/4K3/r4r2 w - - 0 71[/fen]

Corona was showing -11.03 here

As i would never even consider selling the President nor any of the Big Saiteks Woods.. the testing is now complete

As an Aside ..the Mirage ..playing with the dark pieces in every game ..earned a Performance rating for the 5 games of 1943..well above its Wiki rating and even well above the Excalibur Grandmasters Selective Search and Wiki ratings
(Mirage and GM both had the same program ..GM runs at 12 Mhz -Mirage at 10Mhz)

Let The Feeding Frenzy Begin Regards
Steve

ricard60 · Post by **ricard60** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:46 pm

Hi Steve,

Are stratos and cororna the same programs?

same elo regards
Ricardo

Post by **Steve B** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:51 pm

ricard60 wrote:Hi Steve,

Are stratos and cororna the same programs?

same elo regards
Ricardo

As Originally sold ..YES Ricardo
and Same Hardware(both 6 Mhz)
the only difference was the board
16 Led's Vs 64
Pressure Sensory Vs Auto-Sensory

however each computer had different versions and updates
my Stratos and Corona are the original non-updated versions with no End-game Eproms ...etc..etc.

Oddly.. The Old Scisys/Saitek Catalogues rate the earlier Statros(1987)higher then The Corona(1988)
Stratos-2200 USCF
Corona-2160 USCF

Not So Identical Twins Regards
Steve

rlsuth · Post by **rlsuth** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:44 pm

Steve B wrote: As i would never even consider selling the President nor any of the Big Saiteks Woods.. the testing is now complete

When these boards were readily available, I used to think "One day I'll buy one, when the price has come down a bit". Really sorry I didn't now. It's just not the same playing on a PC and now nobody makes a big, wood chess computer.

If an Elegance ever comes up on eBay, at a decent price, I'll make a bid, because at least you can still get those repaired (albeit in the UK).