450 Euro...so far!

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:36 pm

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Saitek-Risc-2500 ... 3a72c54ee9

It seems the upmarket units are bringing good prices, after a number
of sales in recent weeks.This one is
minus the original box. The owner claims it includes an original power
supply...hope he's not referring to the one in the picture.
Larry

ricard60 · Post by **ricard60** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:09 pm

Hi Larry,

Is THE KING V 3.5 the engine inside this RISC 2500?

engine regards
Ricardo

RadioSmall · Post by **RadioSmall** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:42 pm

ricard60 wrote:Hi Larry,

Is THE KING V 3.5 the engine inside this RISC 2500?

engine regards
Ricardo

Hi Ricardo
It certainly cannot be THE KING V 3.5 , because 3.5 version came out in 2007. The RISC 2500 contains a very old version of THE KING , it is not even the 3. series.

ricard60 · Post by **ricard60** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:29 pm

Hi RadioSmall,

Once i made the question to Larry i start looking and i found this link:

http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/in ... _RISC_2500

and you are right, so probably are any of the versions 1.02, 1.03 or 1.04.

Thanks
Ricardo

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:42 am

Chessmaster 3000 was the latest version back in 1992, and even then
of course risc2500 ran on much slower hardware. It does give the same
de Konig dashing playing style, which keeps bringing you back to the board.
On the matter of different risc2500 versions, they are pretty much just
very minor bugfixes, nothing major.
The ones with upgraded RAM are about 40 elo stronger, with the 512kb
being just as good as the 2mb, it seems.
Larry

RadioSmall · Post by **RadioSmall** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:43 am

Larry wrote:Chessmaster 3000 was the latest version back in 1992, and even then
of course risc2500 ran on much slower hardware. It does give the same
de Konig dashing playing style, which keeps bringing you back to the board.
On the matter of different risc2500 versions, they are pretty much just
very minor bugfixes, nothing major.
The ones with upgraded RAM are about 40 elo stronger, with the 512kb
being just as good as the 2mb, it seems.
Larry

Please note that Chessmaster 3000 is NOT a de Koning program but a Kittinger program . De Koning programs start with Chessmaster 4000.

Reinfeld · Post by **Reinfeld** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:05 pm

RadioSmall wrote:
Larry wrote:Chessmaster 3000 was the latest version back in 1992, and even then
of course risc2500 ran on much slower hardware. It does give the same
de Konig dashing playing style, which keeps bringing you back to the board.
On the matter of different risc2500 versions, they are pretty much just
very minor bugfixes, nothing major.
The ones with upgraded RAM are about 40 elo stronger, with the 512kb
being just as good as the 2mb, it seems.
Larry
Please note that Chessmaster 3000 is NOT a de Koning program but a Kittinger program . De Koning programs start with Chessmaster 4000.

And according to SSDF, the RISC 2500 came up slightly short against CM 4000 (running on a 486):

RISC 2500 - 12
CM4000 - 18

Reinfeld · Post by **Reinfeld** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:39 pm

Well, at least I'm a bit more frugal. I picked this one up a few days back for 378 Euro. I'm still waiting on overseas delivery. It is the upgraded 2 MB version, which appears to add 30 or 40 rating points:

http://tinyurl.com/86sj4n2

Footnote for technophiles: The seller included the original power supply/adapter. Obviously I'm in the western US. We don't have those fancy, highbrow European power outlets. When we want to fire up a chess computer, we have to rub two sticks together, then clack a couple of rocks to get a spark.

Seller politely warned me to get a 110 to 220 converter - which I will do. He added this interesting side comment:

"The Risc 2500's are notorious for requiring an exact voltage and I had this adapter finetuned by Arno Kreuzberg who is a specialist in the field."

Well, that was interesting. I looked up the name and lo and behold, Herr Kreuzberg has his own little space on the elpeon site:

http://www.elpeon.com/index.php?mod=whois

spacious_mind · Post by **spacious_mind** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:49 pm

RadioSmall wrote:
Larry wrote:Chessmaster 3000 was the latest version back in 1992, and even then
of course risc2500 ran on much slower hardware. It does give the same
de Konig dashing playing style, which keeps bringing you back to the board.
On the matter of different risc2500 versions, they are pretty much just
very minor bugfixes, nothing major.
The ones with upgraded RAM are about 40 elo stronger, with the 512kb
being just as good as the 2mb, it seems.
Larry
Please note that Chessmaster 3000 is NOT a de Koning program but a Kittinger program . De Koning programs start with Chessmaster 4000.

Chessmaster 2000 was Kittinger and is based around Mychess. Chessmaster 2100 (The Fidelity) was Spracklen and based around Sargon III.
Chessmaster 3000 as far as I know it is not certain that this is Kittinger since the War Room already existed with Chessmaster 2100. The Credits for Chessmaster 3000 show the name Henryk Markarian.

Unfortunately none of the Credits in Chessmaster 3000 mention any known chess programmer. Henrik Markarian's name also floats around CM2100 therefore CM3000 has no named chess programmer name behind it. As such it could be:
Kittinger
Spracklen
De Koening
Markarian

ps I know what Wikispaces says, but in this case they might be wrong since they are already wrong with Chessmaster 2100.

Regards

Nick

IA · Post by IA » Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:57 pm

Hello.

The CM2000 and CM2100 engine is the same as David Kitinger, also left a version of Chessmaster 2100 (Fidelity) is Spracklen, Dan & Kate, CM3000 although it does not play like Kittinger Novag machines and make the same sacrifices typical algorithm PSH, I have personal impression that the engine is an evolved version CM3000 between the Novag Expert C and the Novag Scorpio of Kittinger, personally I have no doubt that CM3000 is the best program Kittinger you can find PC doing typical sacrifices of the algorithm PSH....

Regard

spacious_mind · Post by **spacious_mind** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:04 pm

IA wrote:Hello.

The CM2000 and CM2100 engine is the same as David Kitinger, also left a version of Chessmaster 2100 (Fidelity) is Spracklen, CM3000 although it does not play like Kittinger Novag machines and make the same sacrifices typical algorithm PSH, I have personal impression that the engine is an evolved version CM3000 between the Novag Expert C and the Novag Scorpio of Kittinger, personally I have no doubt that CM3000 is the best program Kittinger you can find PC doing typical sacrifices of the algorithm PSH....

Regard

There is only one CM2100 and that is called the Fidelity Chessmaster 2100. This is a Spracklen program on the PC, Amiga, Atari ST, Atari 800, Commodore 64 or Apple II.

There is no proof that CM3000 is Kittinger but that doesnt mean you are not right, I just do not think that you can say this for certain because it is not documented anywhere and the Credits go to Henrik Markarian. I also have the Novag Super Expert C and B. The War Room started with CM2100.

regards

Nick

IA · Post by IA » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:32 pm

Hi spacious_mind

CM3000 plays all the typical sacrifices machines Novag (especially those with very high PSH algorithm such as the Novag Super Constellation and Novag Super Forte / Expert ...) while I've found that CM3000 plays like the best machines Novag , these machines have a distinctive playing style all her own, for me it is clear that CM3000 have the chess engine of David Kittinger, can be compared with any machine

An example is the sacrifice that makes the "Novag Super Forte C" 9...Nxe4! Mephisto Milano - Novag Super Forte C 6 MHz http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/in ... r_Expert_C

CM3000 see it in seconds on any computer, there are many examples, such moves are based on the algorithm PSH.

Regards...