Computer Chess as it should be

Post by **Harvey Williamson** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:59 am

ricard60 wrote:I will read it, but what i believed it happend is that vas got some derivative code from fruit and from that point of view he is guilty from rule number 2.

Look this comment about rule number 2:

"Nelson Hernandez: The ICGA wishes to sustain a standard of property rights that simply does not exist and cannot exist in the current technological milieu, wherein once-proprietary information is a few mouse-clicks away and available to anyone on the Internet. The ICGA's Rule 2 is a relic of the pre-Internet years, superficially simple with its absolutist requirement for originality, yet a dead letter in the actual, irreversible reality that exists today.

The magnitude of the ICGA's error is manifest by simply taking a step backwards and looking at the situation with fresh eyes. Rule 2 is apparently unenforceable on its face by observing that their action required hundreds of "expert" man-hours, a reinterpretion the rule according to subjective ex post facto standards, and through the manufacture of "evidence" to support a publicly preconceived conclusion."

Why Fabian the author of fruit put his engine on the internet as an open source code for public use and now claim vas has copied it?

I really think you should go and read the evidence and also study what a GPL licence is that Fruit was released under. Yes you can use Fruit if you conply with the licence. This means full credit to Fruit must be given and you must release the source code with your engine.

ricard60 · Post by **ricard60** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:22 am

And what will happen if someone copies a strong free code with no licence that is few clicks away on the internet and comes up with even a stronger engine?

sockmonkey · Post by **sockmonkey** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:11 am

ricard60 wrote:And what will happen if someone copies a strong free code with no licence that is few clicks away on the internet and comes up with even a stronger engine?

It's already happened! Houdini is exactly that engine.

ricard60 · Post by **ricard60** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:52 am

Can Houdini go in to an ICGA tournament?

sockmonkey · Post by **sockmonkey** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:31 pm

ricard60 wrote:Can Houdini go in to an ICGA tournament?

I can't speak for the ICGA, and it hasn't been tried until now AFAIK, but it would surprise me very much if Houdini were allowed to compete in ICGA events.

Jeremy

Post by **Harvey Williamson** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:12 pm

sockmonkey wrote:
ricard60 wrote:Can Houdini go in to an ICGA tournament?
I can't speak for the ICGA, and it hasn't been tried until now AFAIK, but it would surprise me very much if Houdini were allowed to compete in ICGA events.

Jeremy

I agree.

ricard60 · Post by **ricard60** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:00 pm

sockmonkey wrote:
ricard60 wrote:And what will happen if someone copies a strong free code with no licence that is few clicks away on the internet and comes up with even a stronger engine?
It's already happened! Houdini is exactly that engine.

If this is true; Houdini will have no problem with rule number 2 of the ICGA because it was grabbed from a free code engine on the internet and with no licence. So i believe it can go in the ICGA tournament.

sockmonkey · Post by **sockmonkey** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:32 pm

ricard60 wrote:
sockmonkey wrote:
ricard60 wrote:And what will happen if someone copies a strong free code with no licence that is few clicks away on the internet and comes up with even a stronger engine?
It's already happened! Houdini is exactly that engine.
If this is true; Houdini will have no problem with rule number 2 of the ICGA because it was grabbed from a free code engine on the internet and with no licence. So i believe it can go in the ICGA tournament.

Only if the additional authors are named as part of the entry.

ricard60 · Post by **ricard60** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:55 pm

sockmonkey wrote:
ricard60 wrote:
sockmonkey wrote:
ricard60 wrote:And what will happen if someone copies a strong free code with no licence that is few clicks away on the internet and comes up with even a stronger engine?
It's already happened! Houdini is exactly that engine.
If this is true; Houdini will have no problem with rule number 2 of the ICGA because it was grabbed from a free code engine on the internet and with no licence. So i believe it can go in the ICGA tournament.
Only if the additional authors are named as part of the entry.

Then grab Houdini name the additional authors and be world champion.

Post by **Harvey Williamson** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:07 am

ricard60 wrote:
sockmonkey wrote:
ricard60 wrote:
sockmonkey wrote:
ricard60 wrote:And what will happen if someone copies a strong free code with no licence that is few clicks away on the internet and comes up with even a stronger engine?
It's already happened! Houdini is exactly that engine.
If this is true; Houdini will have no problem with rule number 2 of the ICGA because it was grabbed from a free code engine on the internet and with no licence. So i believe it can go in the ICGA tournament.
Only if the additional authors are named as part of the entry.
Then grab Houdini name the additional authors and be world champion.

I think at that point an investigation into where the source code it is based on came from would have to be started by the ICGA.

But before that happens Houdart has to be honest about his source code as Jeremy says.

ricard60 · Post by **ricard60** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:30 am

But how much time will that investigation required to see where the source code come from. I believe hundreds of expert man hours or maybe more, that's why rule number 2 it is something unenforceable.

Post by **Harvey Williamson** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:07 am

ricard60 wrote:But how much time will that investigation required to see where the source code come from. I believe hundreds of expert man hours or maybe more, that's why rule number 2 it is something unenforceable.

It is completely enforcable and has been enforced many times. If you want to enter you must write your own engine.

ricard60 · Post by **ricard60** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:26 am

I know if i write my own engine i will be investigated and so all others that want to go in ( for me that it is ok) but each year lots of new engines are free on the internet and very strong just few clicks away so someday there will be so much engines that ICGA can not look at everyone to see where the engines that are going in a tournament of the ICGA came from.
What would have been happend if Fabian never complain about his copy?
When Rybka came in why it was not investigated at that moment?

Post by **Harvey Williamson** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:28 am

ricard60 wrote:I know if i write my own engine i will be investigated and so all others that want to go in ( for me that it is ok) but each year lots of new engines are free on the internet and very strong just few clicks away so someday there will be so much engines that ICGA can not look at everyone to see where the engines that are going in a tournament of the ICGA came from.
What would have been happend if Fabian never complain about his copy?
When Rybka came in why it was not investigated at that moment?

If a new engine enters an ICGA event and an ICGA member asks a question about it the engine will probably be investigated.

ricard60 · Post by **ricard60** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:33 am

But why when Rybka first came in; why it was not investigated at that moment?