Ok, it is the max Elo value at Elo-levels and it was your decision to give 2.500 and SMK gives 2.600, MU gives 2.825. Perhaps they also like their numbers. I agree it is not serious to call it the authors Elo-rating for the App. But I am sure it could be an idea for the division. The 2825 is a signal that Hiarcs is at the top.
For Shredder it is possible to play rated games. You can test with max strange and proof the average time. I think it is between 10 and 15 seconds (without bookmoves - iPad). It needs further tests but then you can choose an equal time-level for the opponent. And you can run some test suits like BT-2630 above.
By the way my results for Stockfish 2.3 "active" at iPad1 was 2.500 at BT-2630 with about 3.900 sec. I will post the results for all positions later. This is the top result so far. Next time I will test Hiarcs.
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barquero37
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My results for the BT-2630 Test Palm T3 ( 400 Mhz ) Hiarcs 9.7 was 2.504 at BT-2630 with 3.805sec .... 
http://hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1979
Palm Hiarcs 9.7 at only 400 Mhz Tactical offers a level exceeding Shredder 1.0 iPad1 to 1000 Mhz and 2.3 similar to Stockfish iPad1 to 1000 Mhz
Regards....
http://hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1979
Palm Hiarcs 9.7 at only 400 Mhz Tactical offers a level exceeding Shredder 1.0 iPad1 to 1000 Mhz and 2.3 similar to Stockfish iPad1 to 1000 Mhz
Regards....
I decided to test PocketFritz4 with Hiarcs 13.1 on an Acer NeoTouch 1ghz cell phone with the BT-2630.The results are as follows
1.Nxg7 D=9 00:00 16.Nxg2 D=15 2:22
2.Bxb6 D=12 00:00 17.Qxf4 D=9 00:01
3.Re6 D=9 00:04 18.d6 D=10 00:00
4.Qf7 D=13 00:24 19.f3 D=8 00:02
5.Ka6 D=11 00:01 20.Ra2 D=8 00:00
6.e3 D=9 00:01 21.Re1 D=13 00:18
7.Rd6 D=11 00:00 22.a3 D=8 00:01
8.Rxc6+ D=8 00:00 23.g4 D=14 00:07
9.g5 D=7 00:00 24.g6 D=13 00:10
10.Rxg7+ D=9 00:02 25.Nd3 D=14 00:05
11.Qxh2+ D=8 00:00 26.f5 D=6 00:00
12.Qe4 D=8 00:00 27.e6 D=10 00:01
13.Be6 D=9 00:01 28.e5 D=15 03:09
14.Rxh7#7 D=7 00:00 29.0-0-0 D=8 00:01
15.e5 D=10 00:03 30.f4 D=9 00:00
As can be seen all the positions got solved with an average time of 13.733 seconds.The difficult positions were 16 and 28.I might run Naum 4.2 on this test too.
1.Nxg7 D=9 00:00 16.Nxg2 D=15 2:22
2.Bxb6 D=12 00:00 17.Qxf4 D=9 00:01
3.Re6 D=9 00:04 18.d6 D=10 00:00
4.Qf7 D=13 00:24 19.f3 D=8 00:02
5.Ka6 D=11 00:01 20.Ra2 D=8 00:00
6.e3 D=9 00:01 21.Re1 D=13 00:18
7.Rd6 D=11 00:00 22.a3 D=8 00:01
8.Rxc6+ D=8 00:00 23.g4 D=14 00:07
9.g5 D=7 00:00 24.g6 D=13 00:10
10.Rxg7+ D=9 00:02 25.Nd3 D=14 00:05
11.Qxh2+ D=8 00:00 26.f5 D=6 00:00
12.Qe4 D=8 00:00 27.e6 D=10 00:01
13.Be6 D=9 00:01 28.e5 D=15 03:09
14.Rxh7#7 D=7 00:00 29.0-0-0 D=8 00:01
15.e5 D=10 00:03 30.f4 D=9 00:00
As can be seen all the positions got solved with an average time of 13.733 seconds.The difficult positions were 16 and 28.I might run Naum 4.2 on this test too.
Here are my results (be sure that the program "holds" the right move until 900 sec!):
Shredder Rev. -- Shredder iPad -- CTiger -- Stockfish 2.3
----------- normal - aggressiv - normal - active ---
01: (289s) -- (043s) -- (001s) -- (003s) -- (001s)
02: (120s) -- (061s) -- (015s) -- (010s) -- (004s)
03: (040s) -- (009s) -- (003s) -- (002s) -- (021s)
04: (900s) -- (900s) -- (900s) -- (354s) -- (900s)
05: (002s) -- (001s) -- (001s) -- (900s) -- (001s)
06: (016s) -- (003s) -- (003s) -- (003s) -- (002s)
07: (002s) -- (001s) -- (001s) -- (001s) -- (002s)
08: (006s) -- (002s) -- (003s) -- (900s) -- (001s)
09: (087s) -- (010s) -- (005s) -- (003s) -- (004s)
10: (035s) -- (003s) -- (003s) -- (001s) -- (006s)
11: (018s) -- (003s) -- (003s) -- (001s) -- (003s)
12: (003s) -- (001s) -- (001s) -- (002s) -- (900s)
13: (247s) -- (205s) -- (035s) -- (008s) -- (003s)
14: (009s) -- (002s) -- (002s) -- (002s) -- (005s)
15: (900s) -- (900s) -- (900s) -- (900s) -- (017s)
16: (020s) -- (004s) -- (001s) -- (900s) -- (900s)
17: (072s) -- (010s) -- (012s) -- (001s) -- (001s)
18: (023s) -- (005s) -- (004s) -- (003s) -- (002s)
19: (488s) -- (063s) -- (093s) -- (006s) -- (026s)
20: (047s) -- (006s) -- (004s) -- (002s) -- (002s)
21: (900s) -- (900s) -- (327s) -- (216s) -- (014s)
22: (001s) -- (001s) -- (001s) -- (001s) -- (001s)
23: (900s) -- (214s) -- (005s) -- (900s) -- (127s)
24: (899s) -- (198s) -- (456s) -- (053s) -- (007s)
25: (072s) -- (023s) -- (352s) -- (004s) -- (002s)
26: (725s) -- (900s) -- (435s) -- (900s) -- (001s)
27: (020s) -- (004s) -- (006s) -- (004s) -- (002s)
28: (125s) -- (019s) -- (080s) -- (900s) -- (900s)
29: (600s) -- (059s) -- (280s) -- (025s) -- (002s)
30: (045s) -- (006s) -- (003s) -- (024s) -- (001s)
Shredder 11.74 Revelation: 7.611 sec => 2.376
Shredder 1.0 iPad "normal": 4.556 sec => 2.478
Shredder 1.0 iPad "aggressiv": 3.938 sec => 2.498
ChessTiger 2011.1 iPad "normal": 7.029 sec => 2.396
Stockfish 2.3 iPad "active": 3.858 sec => 2.501
Shredder Rev. -- Shredder iPad -- CTiger -- Stockfish 2.3
----------- normal - aggressiv - normal - active ---
01: (289s) -- (043s) -- (001s) -- (003s) -- (001s)
02: (120s) -- (061s) -- (015s) -- (010s) -- (004s)
03: (040s) -- (009s) -- (003s) -- (002s) -- (021s)
04: (900s) -- (900s) -- (900s) -- (354s) -- (900s)
05: (002s) -- (001s) -- (001s) -- (900s) -- (001s)
06: (016s) -- (003s) -- (003s) -- (003s) -- (002s)
07: (002s) -- (001s) -- (001s) -- (001s) -- (002s)
08: (006s) -- (002s) -- (003s) -- (900s) -- (001s)
09: (087s) -- (010s) -- (005s) -- (003s) -- (004s)
10: (035s) -- (003s) -- (003s) -- (001s) -- (006s)
11: (018s) -- (003s) -- (003s) -- (001s) -- (003s)
12: (003s) -- (001s) -- (001s) -- (002s) -- (900s)
13: (247s) -- (205s) -- (035s) -- (008s) -- (003s)
14: (009s) -- (002s) -- (002s) -- (002s) -- (005s)
15: (900s) -- (900s) -- (900s) -- (900s) -- (017s)
16: (020s) -- (004s) -- (001s) -- (900s) -- (900s)
17: (072s) -- (010s) -- (012s) -- (001s) -- (001s)
18: (023s) -- (005s) -- (004s) -- (003s) -- (002s)
19: (488s) -- (063s) -- (093s) -- (006s) -- (026s)
20: (047s) -- (006s) -- (004s) -- (002s) -- (002s)
21: (900s) -- (900s) -- (327s) -- (216s) -- (014s)
22: (001s) -- (001s) -- (001s) -- (001s) -- (001s)
23: (900s) -- (214s) -- (005s) -- (900s) -- (127s)
24: (899s) -- (198s) -- (456s) -- (053s) -- (007s)
25: (072s) -- (023s) -- (352s) -- (004s) -- (002s)
26: (725s) -- (900s) -- (435s) -- (900s) -- (001s)
27: (020s) -- (004s) -- (006s) -- (004s) -- (002s)
28: (125s) -- (019s) -- (080s) -- (900s) -- (900s)
29: (600s) -- (059s) -- (280s) -- (025s) -- (002s)
30: (045s) -- (006s) -- (003s) -- (024s) -- (001s)
Shredder 11.74 Revelation: 7.611 sec => 2.376
Shredder 1.0 iPad "normal": 4.556 sec => 2.478
Shredder 1.0 iPad "aggressiv": 3.938 sec => 2.498
ChessTiger 2011.1 iPad "normal": 7.029 sec => 2.396
Stockfish 2.3 iPad "active": 3.858 sec => 2.501
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vonderlasa
- Member
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Chess Tiger now working fine on my iTouch first generation
Thanks to the kind and personal attention of Christophe, and a program written just for me javascript:emoticon(':D') , Chess Tiger now works perfectly on my 1st generation iTouch. It has a nice feature i have not seen before, active "coaching" against the computer when playing at handicap levels [up to 2090 Elo].
Re: Chess Tiger now working fine on my iTouch first generati
vonderlasa wrote:Thanks to the kind and personal attention of Christophe, and a program written just for me javascript:emoticon(':D') , Chess Tiger now works perfectly on my 1st generation iTouch. It has a nice feature i have not seen before, active "coaching" against the computer when playing at handicap levels [up to 2090 Elo].
A word to explain what happened to Vonderlasa.
He is using an iPod touch 1st generation, updated to the latest iOS available for it, version 3.1.3.
It is nice to see that Chess Tiger now runs fine on the very first iPod touch! It's slower than on the latest one but is still very strong and I could easily recommend getting a second-hand iPod touch first generation for learning chess with Chess Tiger or Hiarcs.
But initially, Chess Tiger did not run on it for 2 reasons:
- strangely, the graphical layers were not arranged correctly on this device. The totally white layer that was supposed to be in the background was displayed in the foreground. So the program was working but unusable as it was displaying an entirely white screen!
- some graphics were compressed using JPEG compression and it worked fine on all versions of iOS... except 3.1.3 (and below I guess). So some chess boards styles were not available.
- I was using a texture that did not exist yet in iOS 3.1.3 (the "gray cloth" background). For this one I got a crash!
You could say that these were pretty obvious errors that could have easily been spotted after one second of testing. Which is true, but it happened only on iPod touch first generation and/or iOS 3.1.3.
I had iOS 3.1.3 on my iPhone when I started developping Chess Tiger (or was it 3.1.2?) but later updated to each new version of iOS. All the people who had tested Chess Tiger on iPhone, iPod touch or iPad had iOS 3.2 or above.
Worse, Apple does not provide the 3.1.3 simulator anymore. The lowest version of iOS I can test with is 3.2. It's not fair, because iOS 3.1.3 is the CURRENT version for a range of Apple devices: the iPod touch first generation and the iPhone first generation. Their hardware does not support higher versions of iOS (and it's true - iOS 4 can be hacked to run on them I think, but is so slow it's simply unusable).
So I had to find a real iPod touch 1st generation in order to sort these problems out.
I guess Android supporters are going to love this story. After all, it's Android that is supposed to be fragmented, right?
Before they jump on this I would like to remind them that this device is 4 years old (were was Android then?) and that 3 one-line fixes were enough to make the program compatible with it.
"Pretty cool, uh?" (tm)
// Christophe
Hello Christopher Theron, interesting story with the iPod..., this is something that usually happens very often, just today I found a utility that has to do with what you say, this is a graphics accelerator for the iPod - iPhone slow, I do not I tried it because I have nothing to Apple but surely some will come in handy:
*FakeClockUp: http://www.solidblogger.com/fakeclockup ... pod-touch/
Because of Mark and the excellent Palm Hiarcs I bought a Palm T3 just to play chess and since I'm a Fans of Palm in its simplicity and productivity and I'm really happy with Palm, for my has been the best buy Chess I've done and thanks to the low power consumption of the Palm Hiarcs I have endured over time, Palm T3 for me despite the years is still the best PDA ever, a shame that they no longer most PDAs now I have also ChessTiger on Palm T3 and in the Pocket PC thanks to StyleTap, but I would not like having to buy a iPod 5G to play with ChessTiger2011... but I like to play with the stylus for example with a Palm or a WM, and see what happens at the end but for now I will not buy any tablet Android until no Hiarcs and while I will wait to see if we are lucky and get the special ChessTiger Android...
Regards.
*FakeClockUp: http://www.solidblogger.com/fakeclockup ... pod-touch/
Because of Mark and the excellent Palm Hiarcs I bought a Palm T3 just to play chess and since I'm a Fans of Palm in its simplicity and productivity and I'm really happy with Palm, for my has been the best buy Chess I've done and thanks to the low power consumption of the Palm Hiarcs I have endured over time, Palm T3 for me despite the years is still the best PDA ever, a shame that they no longer most PDAs now I have also ChessTiger on Palm T3 and in the Pocket PC thanks to StyleTap, but I would not like having to buy a iPod 5G to play with ChessTiger2011...
but I like to play with the stylus for example with a Palm or a WM, and see what happens at the end but for now I will not buy any tablet Android until no Hiarcs and while I will wait to see if we are lucky and get the special ChessTiger Android... Regards.
Just found out that Tiger uses Hash Tables, but does not have ponder on ability.So any testing against other PDA chess software should be with ponder off to be fair.Analysis time is limited to 10 minute max, and is split between the 4 best moves on many positions which can slow it down in finding the absolute best move.Sometimes it is better to just have the level set to You vs Tiger at 180 seconds a move and get Tiger to compute a move I find the analysis info displayed doing this is of a better quality with depth and nodes reported at end of analysis.
Cubeman wrote:Just found out that Tiger uses Hash Tables, but does not have ponder on ability.So any testing against other PDA chess software should be with ponder off to be fair.Analysis time is limited to 10 minute max, and is split between the 4 best moves on many positions which can slow it down in finding the absolute best move.Sometimes it is better to just have the level set to You vs Tiger at 180 seconds a move and get Tiger to compute a move I find the analysis info displayed doing this is of a better quality with depth and nodes reported at end of analysis.
I did not expect I would have to say it explicitely, but no analysis mode should be used if you expect optimal strength from the program...
// Christophe
iPhone Speed
I have several iPhone Chess apps and what I notice most is the relative search speed of the different engines.
I have used Hiarcs for ages and recently installed on the iphone 3GS. It does appear to play as I would expect..... a strong and positionally sensible game. However, it takes many minutes to get to 12 ply depth compared to Shredder and Chess Tiger which both get to that level inside a minute usually on the same position. tChess takes a little longer but is still noticeably faster than Hiarcs. I deleted Fritz after a day as it was SOOO BAD so I don't remember how fast that was.
Is it simply that Hiarcs takes longer to analyze postional and strategic elements? Or is it just slower and therefore at a disadvantage to say Shredder?
Any comments chaps?
B
I have used Hiarcs for ages and recently installed on the iphone 3GS. It does appear to play as I would expect..... a strong and positionally sensible game. However, it takes many minutes to get to 12 ply depth compared to Shredder and Chess Tiger which both get to that level inside a minute usually on the same position. tChess takes a little longer but is still noticeably faster than Hiarcs. I deleted Fritz after a day as it was SOOO BAD so I don't remember how fast that was.
Is it simply that Hiarcs takes longer to analyze postional and strategic elements? Or is it just slower and therefore at a disadvantage to say Shredder?
Any comments chaps?
B
iPhone Speed
I have several iPhone Chess apps and what I notice most is the relative search speed of the different engines.
I have used Hiarcs for ages and recently installed on the iphone 3GS. It does appear to play as I would expect..... a strong and positionally sensible game. However, it takes many minutes to get to 12 ply depth compared to Shredder and Chess Tiger which both get to that level inside a minute usually on the same position. tChess takes a little longer but is still noticeably faster than Hiarcs. I deleted Fritz after a day as it was SOOO BAD so I don't remember how fast that was.
Is it simply that Hiarcs takes longer to analyze postional and strategic elements? Or is it just slower and therefore at a disadvantage to say Shredder?
Any comments chaps?
B
I have used Hiarcs for ages and recently installed on the iphone 3GS. It does appear to play as I would expect..... a strong and positionally sensible game. However, it takes many minutes to get to 12 ply depth compared to Shredder and Chess Tiger which both get to that level inside a minute usually on the same position. tChess takes a little longer but is still noticeably faster than Hiarcs. I deleted Fritz after a day as it was SOOO BAD so I don't remember how fast that was.
Is it simply that Hiarcs takes longer to analyze postional and strategic elements? Or is it just slower and therefore at a disadvantage to say Shredder?
Any comments chaps?
B
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Harvey Williamson
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Re: iPhone Speed
Displayed depth is not everything. if you play a match Hiarcs will beat all of those programs.TheBee wrote:I have several iPhone Chess apps and what I notice most is the relative search speed of the different engines.
I have used Hiarcs for ages and recently installed on the iphone 3GS. It does appear to play as I would expect..... a strong and positionally sensible game. However, it takes many minutes to get to 12 ply depth compared to Shredder and Chess Tiger which both get to that level inside a minute usually on the same position. tChess takes a little longer but is still noticeably faster than Hiarcs. I deleted Fritz after a day as it was SOOO BAD so I don't remember how fast that was.
Is it simply that Hiarcs takes longer to analyze postional and strategic elements? Or is it just slower and therefore at a disadvantage to say Shredder?
Any comments chaps?
B
Take a look at this ratings list http://raitpref.hotbox.ru/ct001-r.htm Hiarcs on mobile devices is clearly number 1. Although you will see a slower search displayed.