Mephisto Atlanta on ebay

Terry McCracken · Post by **Terry McCracken** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:01 am

mclane wrote:???

i would not pay so much for an atlanta.
it has a stupid frans morsch program into it.

100 euro or 120 euro would be the maximum i would pay.
and 80 as the maximum for the milano-pro or master.

whatever. its the decision of the people who pay so much.
IMO they behave a little childish

First let me say that Frans Morsch is a top programmer, and your remark is very childish, crass and rude.

However, this is nothing new from you, and doesn't come as a surprise, as you're very hostile towards Frans Morsch, his programs and the fact he is a top programmer for ChessBase, which you abhor.

That said, there are a lot of collectors that would pay double the money you suggest, and your remarks about them shouldn't go unchallenged.

You've insulted the collectors here with your "childish" remark and that is uncalled for.

With a few words, you've taken a swipe at Frans Morsch and ChessBase, and many who post here.

This isn't CCC/RGCC, in the future, please keep your cretinous comments over there or better yet to yourself. Otherwise don't post here.

Terry

Terry McCracken · Post by **Terry McCracken** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:19 am

Cubeman wrote:My friend had one of these Atlanta's and I told him he was better off using a Pocket PC with a decent engine loaded.To prove my point I played a 30/30 game with my basic PPC loaded with Fruit 2.1 engine and had the PPC play black.To my embarrasment the Atlanta won and I remember looking at the evaluations of both computers and could see that both were saying Black was losing and was hoping the Atlanta would somehow slip up.But the PPC got revenge in the next 2 games.And my friend ended up selling his Atlanta for a miserable $125 New Zealand which is about $100 US.

This thread is about collecting/buying dedicated chess computers not what PC program on a PPC could or would do to a dedicated chess computer. The Atlanta is more for collecting than playing so there is no reason to dismiss the Atlanta.

Your advice cost your friend about $200 US.

Terry

Jose · Post by **Jose** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:40 am

Terry McCracken wrote:
The Atlanta is more for collecting than playing so there is no reason to dismiss the Atlanta.

I think the Atlanta is one you CAN play with, because of his strong playing you would learn for sure. Many other chess computers are only for collecting - Chess Challenger 1 for example

Playing Atlanta Regards
José

Post by **Alain** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:13 am

Hi Jose,

Jose wrote:Many other chess computers are only for collecting - Chess Challenger 1 for example

no, the CC1 is also made for playing ! It does not exercise your chess skills but playing a full game without typo error is also a good exercice for the mind

100% failure in my case regards,
Alain

mclane · Post by **mclane** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:21 am

is the Atlanta capable to handle underpromotions active and passive accurate ?

Jose · Post by **Jose** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:29 pm

Alain wrote: no, the CC1 is also made for playing !

Yes i know, i know, Alain, but it is not the same playing like a Atlanta.

I only want to say - nobody would buy a CC1 for playing (today). If someone want learn and like playing, he would buy a strong computer...like Atlanta for example!

Regards
José

Terry McCracken · Post by **Terry McCracken** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:31 pm

Jose wrote:
Terry McCracken wrote:
The Atlanta is more for collecting than playing so there is no reason to dismiss the Atlanta.
I think the Atlanta is one you CAN play with, because of his strong playing you would learn for sure. Many other chess computers are only for collecting - Chess Challenger 1 for example

Playing Atlanta Regards
José

I might need something a little stronger

But I wouldn't pass on it if I were a serious collector.

Best,
Terry

Terry McCracken · Post by **Terry McCracken** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:37 pm

mclane wrote:is the Atlanta capable to handle underpromotions active and passive accurate ?

Buy one and find out

However, I'm sure Steve B can answer this question and it won't cost you one red cent

I don't have one, but I imagine it can.

Terry

Post by **Steve B** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:54 pm

Terry McCracken wrote:
mclane wrote:is the Atlanta capable to handle underpromotions active and passive accurate ?
Buy one and find out

However, I'm sure Steve B can answer this question and it won't cost you one red cent

I don't have one, but I imagine it can.

Terry

i guess Thor must be referring to this entry in Wiki where the Atlanta(Magellan) did not perform so brilliantly

http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/in ... 2/4pB2/8/8

however i have learned a long time ago not to judge a chess computer by only a single or even a few positions

on the full BT 2630 test suite the Atlanta scored a solid mid 2200 Elo
one of the few dedicated computers to ever score that high

but of course the Atlanta can and will under promote
we are not talking about Rybka here after all

Regards
Steve

Terry McCracken · Post by **Terry McCracken** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:23 pm

Steve B wrote:
Terry McCracken wrote:
mclane wrote:is the Atlanta capable to handle underpromotions active and passive accurate ?
Buy one and find out

However, I'm sure Steve B can answer this question and it won't cost you one red cent

I don't have one, but I imagine it can.

Terry
i guess Thor must be referring to this entry in Wiki where the Atlanta(Magellan) did not perform so brilliantly

http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/in ... 2/4pB2/8/8

however i have learned a long time ago not to judge a chess computer by only a single or even a few positions

on the full BT 2630 test suite the Atlanta scored a solid mid 2200 Elo
one of the few dedicated computers to ever score that high

but of course the Atlanta can and will under promote
we are not talking about Rybka here after all

Regards
Steve

That was funny....of course that was with the first Beta or Betas for testing, the commercial programs had and have underpromotions.

BTW Steve, can you send me that link to Wikipedia on Computer Chess with the German to English Translator so I can read it again without using Babble Fish.

You sent the link to me a few years back so I could read with ease the German articles on Computer Chess. Sadly there isn't much in the English section of Wikipedia.

I think it was a google translater, and you viewed the site with that....please post that link you sent me here.

I think other non German speakers/readers will appreciate it also!

Thanks!

Promotional Regards,
Terry

Post by **Steve B** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:30 pm

Terry McCracken wrote:

BTW Steve, can you send me that link to Wikipedia on Computer Chess with the German to English Translator so I can read it again without using Babble Fish.

You sent the link to me a few years back so I could read with ease the German articles on Computer Chess. Sadly there isn't much in the English section of Wikipedia.

I think it was a google translater, and you viewed the site with that....please post that link you sent me here.

I think other non German speakers/readers will appreciate it also!

Thanks!

Promotional Regards,
Terry

hi Terry
well the link is for dedicated chess computers not for PC computer chess

this should work for you:
http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... e%5fSeiten

Guaranteed Virus Free Regards
Steve

Terry McCracken · Post by **Terry McCracken** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:38 pm

Steve B wrote:
Terry McCracken wrote:

BTW Steve, can you send me that link to Wikipedia on Computer Chess with the German to English Translator so I can read it again without using Babble Fish.

You sent the link to me a few years back so I could read with ease the German articles on Computer Chess. Sadly there isn't much in the English section of Wikipedia.

I think it was a google translater, and you viewed the site with that....please post that link you sent me here.

I think other non German speakers/readers will appreciate it also!

Thanks!

Promotional Regards,
Terry
hi Terry
well the link is for dedicated chess computers not for PC computer chess

this should work for you:
http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... e%5fSeiten

Guaranteed Virus Free Regards
Steve

Thanks Again Steve!

Best,
Terry

Cubeman · Post by **Cubeman** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:11 am

Terry McCracken wrote:
Cubeman wrote:My friend had one of these Atlanta's and I told him he was better off using a Pocket PC with a decent engine loaded.To prove my point I played a 30/30 game with my basic PPC loaded with Fruit 2.1 engine and had the PPC play black.To my embarrasment the Atlanta won and I remember looking at the evaluations of both computers and could see that both were saying Black was losing and was hoping the Atlanta would somehow slip up.But the PPC got revenge in the next 2 games.And my friend ended up selling his Atlanta for a miserable $125 New Zealand which is about $100 US.
This thread is about collecting/buying dedicated chess computers not what PC program on a PPC could or would do to a dedicated chess computer. The Atlanta is more for collecting than playing so there is no reason to dismiss the Atlanta.

Your advice cost your friend about $200 US.

Terry

My post was praising the Atlanta and the topic was to do with selling an Atlanta on Ebay.In New Zealand there is a local Auction site called TradeMe and only people in NZ or Australia are allowed to bid.It was on the auction site for over a week and failed to get any bids.Then it was relisted at the same price hoping to see if there was more interest.But in the end only 1 person bidded and I had to sell it.This was before I knew how valuable these dedicated units are.In hindsight I wish I had just paid my friend the $125 and kept it myself.As I am now teaching my 7 year old daughter the game and I think a dedicated machine is better for begginers as it gives them the the satisfaction of moving real chess pieces on a real chessboard.I am now on the lookout for a suitable Dedicated for this purpose.Just like that saying you don't know how much you love somthing till its gone.

spacious_mind · Post by **spacious_mind** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:38 am

Following this thread about the Mephisto Atlanta I can say that I also have observed from other forums the occational bad rap that the Atlanta gets which has also made me wonder if it is justified.

Since I really do not think that any dedicated chess computers are exceptional in endgames, I do not see how Atlanta is that much worse then any of the other top dedicated computers in this area.

There are some endgame tests recently carried out and can be seen in Schachinfo/Wiki where computers are being tested in 40 endgame postitions. These positions are not that easy neither for humans nor dedicated computers.

The results of the currently tested machines scored as follows with a performance percentage which considers the speed of response also:

1.Tasc CM512K V3.1 King 2.54 38/40 / 94.59%
2.Tasc CM512K V3.1 King 2.2 38/40 / 94.51%
3.CM512K Gideon 3.0 36/40 / 87.69%
4.Mephisto Magellan 34/40 / 86.81%
5.Mephisto London 68020 34/40 / 83.95%
6.CM1024K Gideon 3.0 33/40 / 80.71%
7.Mephisto Risc 1 29/40 / 71.42%
8.Mephisto MMIV 0/40 / 00.00%

Since the Atlanta is supposed to be identical to the Magellan I would assume that it should achieve a similar score to the Magellan which in my opinion is a pretty good score especially since I believe that most humans without the aid of a computer would not do anywhere near as well. Here is the link in case someone is interested in trying their luck on these positions without aid.

http://www.schachcomputer.info/forum/sh ... php?t=1370

Also in the last 3 dedicate Schachinfo World Championshipships Atlanta finished as follows:

2005 Quarter-finalist
2006 Finalist
2007 Finalist

How can a machine with such achievement get dismissed and devalued is beyond me. Atlanta, in my opinion is a must have machine for any dedicated chess enthuasiast and if you are lucky enough to buy it $300 which seriously doubt I would suggest BUY IT IMMEDIATELY ! Because that is the cheapest top performing dedicated machine that you are ever likely to get.

Here is Atlanta's Schachinfo Online World Championship performance rating of the past 3 years with a list of all the entrants:

Program Elo + - Games Score Av.Op. Draws

1 Resurrection Ruffian, Phoenix : 2392 114 108 40 73.8 % 2213 17.5 %
2 Genius 68030, Mephisto : 2383 91 87 62 75.0 % 2192 17.7 %
3 R30 V2.2, TASC. : 2327 119 114 33 71.2 % 2169 21.2 %
4 Elite 68060 V11, Fidelity : 2325 93 91 48 62.5 % 2236 20.8 %
5 Berlin Pro, Mephisto : 2308 136 132 21 61.9 % 2224 28.6 %
6 Atlanta, Mephisto : 2308 70 68 81 61.7 % 2225 22.2 %
7 Montreux, Mephisto : 2278 107 103 40 66.2 % 2161 17.5 %
8 R30 V2.5, TASC : 2275 75 74 59 60.2 % 2204 32.2 %
9 Lyon 68020 22 MHz, Mephisto : 2246 95 94 38 57.9 % 2191 31.6 %
10 Resurrection Deep Sjeng,Phoenix: 2242 117 115 32 57.8 % 2188 15.6 %
11 Risc 2, Mephisto : 2240 222 207 11 63.6 % 2143 18.2 %
12 Milano Pro, Mephisto : 2226 86 86 47 52.1 % 2211 27.7 %
13 RISC 1MB, Mephisto : 2225 227 215 10 60.0 % 2155 20.0 %
14 RISC 2500, Saitek : 2224 94 93 43 55.8 % 2183 23.3 %
15 London 68030, Mephisto : 2214 141 136 19 63.2 % 2120 31.6 %
16 Radioshack 2250XL, Saitek : 2182 241 241 8 50.0 % 2182 25.0 %
17 Roma 68020, Mephisto : 2180 217 212 8 56.2 % 2136 37.5 %
18 Sapphire, Novag : 2160 99 99 40 52.5 % 2143 20.0 %
19 Kasparov GK 2100, Saitek : 2139 131 133 23 45.7 % 2170 21.7 %
20 Sparc, Saitek : 2139 112 110 36 55.6 % 2100 11.1 %
21 Berlin Pro London, Mephisto : 2133 140 138 22 54.5 % 2102 18.2 %
22 Super Forte C 7 Mhz, Novag : 2125 176 190 7 42.9 % 2175 57.1 %
23 Star Sapphire, Novag : 2119 118 118 30 51.7 % 2107 16.7 %
24 Mach IV, Fidelity : 2113 111 113 29 41.4 % 2173 27.6 %
25 Risc 1MB, Mephisto : 2104 151 149 16 53.1 % 2083 31.2 %
26 Sapphire II, Novag : 2093 138 138 22 50.0 % 2093 18.2 %
27 Diablo, Novag : 2062 232 240 10 45.0 % 2097 10.0 %
28 ChessMachine 3.1 32 MHz, TASC. : 2061 255 239 8 62.5 % 1972 25.0 %
29 MM V Turbo, Mephisto : 2045 241 241 8 50.0 % 2045 25.0 %
30 Mach III, Fidelity : 2040 137 145 25 34.0 % 2155 12.0 %
31 Star Ruby, Novag : 2036 288 326 7 35.7 % 2138 14.3 %
32 Diablo 20 MHz, Novag : 2035 212 217 8 43.8 % 2078 37.5 %
33 Portorose 68020, Mephisto : 2026 209 230 8 31.2 % 2163 37.5 %
34 Miami 24 MHz, Mephisto : 2010 212 217 8 43.8 % 2054 37.5 %
35 Modena, Mephisto : 2004 167 180 15 26.7 % 2180 26.7 %
36 Turquoise, Novag : 2004 212 217 8 43.8 % 2047 37.5 %
37 Mythos, Mephisto : 1986 255 290 7 28.6 % 2145 28.6 %
38 Diablo 24 Mhz, Novag : 1986 334 441 7 28.6 % 2145 0.0 %
39 Brute Force, Saitek : 1972 312 409 8 25.0 % 2163 0.0 %
40 Monte Carlo IV LE, Mephisto : 1972 165 306 7 21.4 % 2197 42.9 %
41 MM IV Turbo, Mephisto : 1963 288 326 7 35.7 % 2065 14.3 %
42 Grandmaster, Excalibur : 1956 185 204 14 25.0 % 2147 21.4 %
43 Vancouver 68020, Mephisto : 1944 181 195 15 33.3 % 2065 13.3 %
44 Polgar, Mephisto : 1943 185 198 14 35.7 % 2045 14.3 %
45 Cosmos 24 MHz, Saitek : 1941 305 345 8 18.8 % 2196 12.5 %
46 MM V, Mephisto : 1924 154 172 13 26.9 % 2097 38.5 %
47 Super Forte C (7 MHz), Novag : 1923 270 323 9 33.3 % 2043 0.0 %
48 Simultano, Saitek : 1900 230 290 14 17.9 % 2165 7.1 %
49 Milano, Mephisto : 1898 152 167 24 22.9 % 2109 12.5 %
50 Berlin 68000, Mephisto : 1858 316 342 6 41.7 % 1917 16.7 %
51 Astral Kasparov, Scisys : 1841 457 320 6 16.7 % 2121 0.0 %
52 Travel Champion, Saitek : 1835 305 345 8 18.8 % 2090 12.5 %
53 Decorator, Fidelity : 1824 457 320 6 16.7 % 2104 0.0 %
54 Playmatic 5 MHz, Fidelity : 1805 369 480 6 33.3 % 1925 0.0 %
55 Tiger Grenadier : 1780 426 289 7 14.3 % 2091 0.0 %
56 MM IV, Mephisto : 1693 322 130 8 6.2 % 2164 12.5 %
57 Super Forte C 8 MHz, Novag : 1669 322 130 8 6.2 % 2139 12.5 %
58 Turboking II, Saitek : 1609 0 0 7 0.0 % 2209 0.0 %
59 Chess Challenger 8, Fidelity : 1549 0 0 6 0.0 % 2149 0.0 %
60 Super Constellation, Novag : 1538 320 41 13 3.8 % 2098 7.7 %
61 ARB 4.0, Applied Concepts : 1394 0 0 6 0.0 % 1994 0.0 %

The 81 games that Atlanta played is more games than any other machine listed above. I think 5th place for a machine that some people would not buy for a $100 is astonishing dont you think? I wonder how much the other top 20 machines are worth ?

All the best

spacious_mind · Post by **spacious_mind** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:29 am

Sorry the previous list still had some duplications here is the more accurate list:

Program Elo + - Games Score Av.Op. Draws

1 Resurrection Ruffian,Phoenixs : 2393 114 108 40 73.8 % 2214 17.5 %
2 Genius 68030, Mephisto : 2381 91 87 62 75.0 % 2190 17.7 %
3 Elite 68060 V11, Fidelity : 2324 93 91 48 62.5 % 2236 20.8 %
4 R30 V2.2, TASC. : 2322 119 114 33 71.2 % 2164 21.2 %
5 Atlanta, Mephisto : 2310 70 68 81 61.7 % 2227 22.2 %
6 Berlin Pro, Mephisto : 2309 136 132 21 61.9 % 2224 28.6 %
7 Montreux, Mephisto : 2283 107 103 40 66.2 % 2165 17.5 %
8 R30 V2.5, TASC : 2273 75 74 59 60.2 % 2202 32.2 %
9 Lyon 68020 22 MHz, Mephisto : 2240 95 94 38 57.9 % 2185 31.6 %
10 Resurrection Deep Sjeng,Phoenix: 2239 117 115 32 57.8 % 2184 15.6 %
11 Risc 2, Mephisto : 2237 222 207 11 63.6 % 2140 18.2 %
12 Milano Pro, Mephisto : 2224 86 86 47 52.1 % 2209 27.7 %
13 RISC 2500, Saitek : 2221 94 93 43 55.8 % 2180 23.3 %
14 London 68030, Mephisto : 2215 141 136 19 63.2 % 2122 31.6 %
15 Roma 68020, Mephisto : 2181 217 212 8 56.2 % 2138 37.5 %
16 Radioshack 2250XL, Saitek : 2181 241 241 8 50.0 % 2181 25.0 %
17 Sapphire, Novag : 2165 99 99 40 52.5 % 2148 20.0 %
18 Risc 1MB, Mephisto : 2151 120 118 26 55.8 % 2111 26.9 %
19 Sparc, Saitek : 2145 112 110 36 55.6 % 2107 11.1 %
20 Kasparov GK 2100, Saitek : 2140 131 133 23 45.7 % 2170 21.7 %
21 Berlin Pro London, Mephisto : 2132 140 138 22 54.5 % 2100 18.2 %
22 Star Sapphire, Novag : 2118 118 118 30 51.7 % 2106 16.7 %
23 Mach IV, Fidelity : 2110 111 113 29 41.4 % 2170 27.6 %
24 Sapphire II, Novag : 2093 138 138 22 50.0 % 2093 18.2 %
25 Diablo, Novag : 2080 232 240 10 45.0 % 2115 10.0 %
26 ChessMachine 3.1 32 MHz, TASC. : 2060 255 239 8 62.5 % 1971 25.0 %
27 MM V Turbo, Mephisto : 2042 241 241 8 50.0 % 2042 25.0 %
28 Mach III, Fidelity : 2039 137 145 25 34.0 % 2154 12.0 %
29 Diablo 20 MHz, Novag : 2037 212 217 8 43.8 % 2080 37.5 %
30 Portorose 68020, Mephisto : 2022 209 230 8 31.2 % 2159 37.5 %
31 Star Ruby, Novag : 2018 288 326 7 35.7 % 2120 14.3 %
32 Super Forte C 7 Mhz, Novag : 2017 158 164 16 37.5 % 2106 25.0 %
33 Miami 24 MHz, Mephisto : 2007 212 217 8 43.8 % 2051 37.5 %
34 Turquoise, Novag : 2003 212 217 8 43.8 % 2047 37.5 %
35 Modena, Mephisto : 1994 167 180 15 26.7 % 2169 26.7 %
36 Brute Force, Saitek : 1975 312 409 8 25.0 % 2166 0.0 %
37 Mythos, Mephisto : 1968 255 290 7 28.6 % 2127 28.6 %
38 Diablo 24 Mhz, Novag : 1968 334 441 7 28.6 % 2127 0.0 %
39 MM IV Turbo, Mephisto : 1965 288 326 7 35.7 % 2067 14.3 %
40 Grandmaster, Excalibur : 1958 185 204 14 25.0 % 2149 21.4 %
41 Monte Carlo IV LE, Mephisto : 1954 165 306 7 21.4 % 2179 42.9 %
42 Vancouver 68020, Mephisto : 1945 181 195 15 33.3 % 2066 13.3 %
43 Polgar, Mephisto : 1944 185 198 14 35.7 % 2046 14.3 %
44 Cosmos 24 MHz, Saitek : 1942 305 345 8 18.8 % 2197 12.5 %
45 MM V, Mephisto : 1917 154 172 13 26.9 % 2091 38.5 %
46 Milano, Mephisto : 1907 152 167 24 22.9 % 2117 12.5 %
47 Simultano, Saitek : 1902 230 290 14 17.9 % 2167 7.1 %
48 Berlin 68000, Mephisto : 1887 316 342 6 41.7 % 1945 16.7 %
49 Astral Kasparov, Scisys : 1844 457 320 6 16.7 % 2124 0.0 %
50 Travel Champion, Saitek : 1834 305 345 8 18.8 % 2089 12.5 %
51 Playmatic 5 MHz, Fidelity : 1834 369 480 6 33.3 % 1954 0.0 %
52 Decorator, Fidelity : 1825 457 320 6 16.7 % 2104 0.0 %
53 Tiger Grenadier : 1782 426 289 7 14.3 % 2093 0.0 %
54 MM IV, Mephisto : 1695 322 130 8 6.2 % 2166 12.5 %
55 Super Forte C 8 MHz, Novag : 1666 322 130 8 6.2 % 2136 12.5 %
56 Turboking II, Saitek : 1608 0 0 7 0.0 % 2208 0.0 %
57 Chess Challenger 8, Fidelity : 1550 0 0 6 0.0 % 2150 0.0 %
58 Super Constellation, Novag : 1540 320 41 13 3.8 % 2099 7.7 %
59 ARB 4.0, Applied Concepts : 1422 0 0 6 0.0 % 2022 0.0 %

Is there an edit function for your posts here ?

regards

Nick